AchrisK
Weakling
I think it's different than that. I'm not saying I can explain it or understand it, or even that I myself would do it that way. But I don't think that is a valid comparison. Especially since you yourself have heard the "message".
Another Fucking Religion Thread
- Thread starter Zephyrus
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Thoth-Amon
Hypochondriac
- Apr 4, 2006
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you mean the "gospel" message? well the problem is that there is no proof that the gospel message is true so the problem still stands.
i mean if we had some clear proof that some of the miracles, etc. in the bible were true such as the creation in six days, or the resurrection, etc. then yeah i would have heard the message and have some convincing proof of it. but there is no evidence that any of the things in the bible that would prove it to be the word of God in fact happened. As such I may have heard the "message" of Christianity but I have seen no clear evidence that it is anymore true than the message of any other religion. Hence I am under no moral or intellectual obligation that it is true.
unknown
fuck ftagn
but this is pretty relevant
and if you need the promise of some glorious eternal afterlife in order to do good and charitable deeds and be a decent human being while on this earth, then what does that say about your character?
Vilden
From the holy kingdom of Harmonia
But there are alot of "messages". What makes a certain one the right, and how do one know?
AchrisK
Weakling
@ unknown
Motivation for good deeds misses the point of Christianity. The good deeds are supposed to be motivated by love. The love is supposed to come from God. The increased level of love in a Christian's life is supposed to come from being influenced by God because you spend time in pursuit of the knowledge of God. That is not to just say you learn what to do by being near God, but that he has an actual influence on you that helps change your outlook so that loving is at least a little more automatic, or maybe just that apathy is less automatic.
My character will speak for itself (good or bad).
@Vilden
I think that I can be sure that a certain message is right. That is to say, that there is an absolute truth. Based on this, and the exclusive nature of most every religion, it seems to me I have the choice to evaluate and choose one (this has some validity), or reject them all (also a valid choice), or piece together something I like (least valid).
I have come to believe that Christianity (based on how it is taught in the bible) is right, and so it is what I follow. I cannot necessarily know for sure that I have made the right choice, but I can be convinced to a degree, and I can keep my eyes and ears open.
Motivation for good deeds misses the point of Christianity. The good deeds are supposed to be motivated by love. The love is supposed to come from God. The increased level of love in a Christian's life is supposed to come from being influenced by God because you spend time in pursuit of the knowledge of God. That is not to just say you learn what to do by being near God, but that he has an actual influence on you that helps change your outlook so that loving is at least a little more automatic, or maybe just that apathy is less automatic.
My character will speak for itself (good or bad).
@Vilden
I think that I can be sure that a certain message is right. That is to say, that there is an absolute truth. Based on this, and the exclusive nature of most every religion, it seems to me I have the choice to evaluate and choose one (this has some validity), or reject them all (also a valid choice), or piece together something I like (least valid).
I have come to believe that Christianity (based on how it is taught in the bible) is right, and so it is what I follow. I cannot necessarily know for sure that I have made the right choice, but I can be convinced to a degree, and I can keep my eyes and ears open.
AchrisK
Weakling
BlackMetalWhiteGuy
Manly Man!
Astrum
Psion
I'm not paticipating in any of these debates, really, because they all end up going in a circle.
But I was born and raised a Roman Catholic, then around 13 started to think for myself. I consider myself a very spiritual person, which most people don't understand because I am pretty openly anti-religion. Not that this is anything you havent heard before, but nearly all organized religions are complete and total contradictions of themselves, in my opinion.
But I was born and raised a Roman Catholic, then around 13 started to think for myself. I consider myself a very spiritual person, which most people don't understand because I am pretty openly anti-religion. Not that this is anything you havent heard before, but nearly all organized religions are complete and total contradictions of themselves, in my opinion.
BlackMetalWhiteGuy
Manly Man!
You completely missed his point. He is under no moral or intellectual obligation to believe that it is true unless there is sufficient evidence to support the claim, which at this point, there isn't. Thus, whether or not it actually is true, is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
AchrisK
Weakling
It's easy enough to apply rules you feel are valid, and I can totally understand the tendancy to do so. It's what comes naturally. But if there is a Creator who has his own rules which don't necessarily fit with what your used to, then how valid are those rules in that situation? That's all I am saying. But it is true that nobody is under any obligation to believe it.
Matt
Active Member
I agree with much of this post. I too dislike the whole Catholic faith. I basically despise the Baptist church and similar sects.
I am what you would call a radical Episcopalian, as my views are often totally different than that of the church.
If there is a hell, you will go to it...
One of my beliefs is that there is no "right" religion...there is one divine power for all religions, etc. This is hard for me to explain, but here is my basic idea of it:
Atheists - go and stay in the grave
Christians - go to their own heaven
Satanists - go to hellz
Pagans - go wherever (fuck I don't know..)
etc
AchrisK
Weakling
So we all get to make up our own truths, and they will come to pass? That's what I've always wanted.
Matt
Active Member
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
They're plenty valid still - if there is a creator who is to say that we are bound by his rules? If there is a creator what stops us from not giving a shit and going on with our lives?
EDIT: In regards to earlier Ack post
EDIT: In regards to earlier Ack post
cookiecutter
Proceed to Ultraslamming
EXACTLY. Any time a theist asks where do atheists' morals come from, I ask whether, if presented with solid proof that god did not exist, he would go out raping and murdering without compunction. If he says no, his point is disproved. If he says yes then I tell him to stay in church.
But you have absolutely know basis for this belief. You just believe what you want without a shred of evidence. I can't wrap my head around this type of thought. It is really alien to me.Mathiäs;6773089 said:
BlackMetalWhiteGuy
Manly Man!
If there is in fact a Creator who has his own rules and who feels so strongly about them that he deems it necessary to reward or punish humans based or how closely their moral codes match his own, then what's to stop him from actually making his presence know to humanity so that we don't all follow the wrong paths accidentally?
I certainly wouldn't just send my kids off to school every day assuming that they'll have the capacity to make the right decisions without providing some form of guidance and then whip them at the end of the semester when they bring home a shitty report card.
cookiecutter
Proceed to Ultraslamming
For a guy who punishes people with ETERNAL TORTURE for not following his instructions exactly, god is pretty vague and confusing
AchrisK
Weakling
They're plenty valid still - if there is a creator who is to say that we are bound by his rules? If there is a creator what stops us from not giving a shit and going on with our lives?
EDIT: In regards to earlier Ack post
Well, nothing really. Depending on what you do in this life, consequences can get nasty. But you are correct that we seem to have free will. I believe there are benefits to following God in this life, but I also think that both good and bad happen to all people, regardless of their beliefs. I suppose the major benefit (or consequence) is what happens next.
