Another Fucking Religion Thread

[cookiecutter]

There are problems with everything; nothing is perfect. There are enough good things so I can still believe. Also, who made you the arbiter of right and wrong? You have no more knowledge on this issue than anyone else - you are going by what you personally think, just like everyone else.

I am not the arbiter of right and wrong. Rationality, reason and logic are. Please share with us these "good things" which help you believe. Also, I am not promoting a positive position(as in believing something, not as in happy or good) I am just explaining why I think yours is wrong.

Yeah ok

Cool response

You may find, CC, that you will never be able to actually hold a constructive debate since you constantly attack/criticize the opposing side. You really shouldn't do that.

You're right. We should all be friends. I'll stop using reason against your beliefs because obviously it is hurting your feelings.

 

[Matt]

Right, uh...fuck off. This is some 4th grade sandbox shit. Inventing new things to make you feel better and more secure about your religion is silly and childish. That is also not a very Christian way of thinking. You're going to YOUR Hell.

I'd also like to point out that your response to unknown's EXCELLENT point was really a failure. Sry d00d.

I honestly don't care what you think, and, as I believe I stated, it's just an idea, not something I really believe in.

And granted, it was a good post, but once again it just stating the obvious it seemed.

So, please elaborate on how utilizing reason to test things with rational bases is inhuman

I never said or implied anything like that. It doesn't make any sense and is pretty lol tbqh.

 

[cookiecutter]

I never said or implied anything like that. It doesn't make any sense and is pretty lol tbqh.

Mort did, that's why his post was quoted

 

[Matt]

That was my original post

And I'm going to reply to your post CC. In a minute.

EDIT: Or maybe an hour

 

[CAIRATH]

I am really glad I am not you. Going soley on the basis of evidence for everything leaves very little room for any sort of imagination.

Yeah, I agree here. I think there is something - slightly 'unhuman' about going about everything based on absolute logic and nothing but empirical evidence.

You think it is "unhuman" to simply expect some kind of proof before you believe something to be true when it comes to the reality and world that we live in? If a friend of yours walks up to you and says he just won the lottery and deposited a million dollars into your bank account you don't immediately go out to buy a house. You would not do anything and probably remain atleast somewhat sceptical until you have confirmed that you do actually have a million dollars and that he wasn't just pulling your leg. If someone claims they have a unicorn living in their garden you don't just blindly believe what they say is true (unless you're a child perhaps), you would expect to see it first before drawing that conclusion.

We all live our lives based pretty much squarely on empirical data every single day, whether you're atheist or devoutly religious. It's just that religious people have made a special exception for a certain part of their reality (namely the part that deals with existential issues).

And we do have people who do let their imaginations shape their view of reality on more aspects of their life than strictly existential issues. They're called children and the insane.

What is so unreasonable or inhuman about wanting to have proof that a certain world view is correct (or at the very least plausible) before you are willing to dedicate your entire life to that particular view? Atheists like myself are unconvinced by the material presented by the mainstream religions and even just by the general concept of necessity for a religion or deity and so we do not submit to those views.

The human magination is an amazing ability but that doesn't mean we should just apply it willy nilly to make stuff up about our reality. Nor does it mean that people like myself and cookiecutter who don't use our imagination that way are "inhuman" or robots. I give this subject a great deal of thought in general and often fantasize about the nature of our reality (and the pretty much unlimited possibilities it offers). I just choose not to assume any of those ideas are actually reality until I can see a reason to assume that they are.

 

[Alter]

On what do you base this claim?

Countless visions,sightings and other religious based excitement that shows that something is happing and has happened over time.

 

[CAIRATH]

remember that "reason" is the archetypal defining characteristic which sets humans apart from other animals

This is an excellent point.

 

[cookiecutter]

^My thoughts exactly

EDIT: Err at CAIRATH's big post.

 

[cookiecutter]

Countless visions,sightings and other religious based excitement that shows that something is happing and has happened over time.

You can't be serious. What about all the visions, sightings and other relgious based excitement that contradicts catholicism? What about ghost sightings? Bigfoot? Alien Abductions? People will experience what they want to, whether that is Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich or God speaking to them from heaven. Whenever objective scientific studies are done nothing is ever found.

 

[Alter]

What makes me laugh is how people are saying know one can prove religion is true and science is the concrete way to answering the idea of an afterlife. But did we not think at one moment that the Earth was flat. Of course we are MUCH more advanced in terms of science, but this just shows that what we are discussing is really just a bunch of uninformed attacks of hypocrisy upon each other.

 

[ohiogrinder]

Atheist until age 24, then became pagan at 25

 

[Matt]

Confirmed ghost sightings would only aid the religious movement

 

[cookiecutter]

What makes me laugh is how people are saying know one can prove religion is true and science is the concrete way to answering the idea of an afterlife. But did we not think at one moment that the Earth was flat. Of course we are MUCH more advanced in terms of science, but this just shows that what we are discussing is really just a bunch of uninformed attacks of hypocrisy upon each other.

That just proves that science is always improving towards real knowledge while religion stays at one fixed and unsupported point. Also, the ancient Greeks knew the Earth was round. Just because scientific knowledge is mutable (that's why it is so great! It improves!), doesn't mean that the method is flawed or that everything we know now is false.

 

[Mort Divine]

What about ghost sightings? Bigfoot? Alien Abductions?

They happen because ghosts are real.

As for Bigfoot I don't really see what is so unbelievable about this.

I have no opinion on the alien one

 

[Alter]

You can't be serious. What about all the visions, sightings and other relgious based excitement that contradicts catholicism? What about ghost sightings? Bigfoot? Alien Abductions? People will experience what they want to, whether that is Jesus in a grilled cheese sandwich or God speaking to them from heaven. Whenever objective scientific studies are done nothing is ever found.

...but you understand the big difference in terms of merit of an someone claiming that a giant human eating a bird than compared to the miracles that happen around the world. Regardless if it is caused by any certain religion.

 

[cookiecutter]

They happen because ghosts are real.

As for Bigfoot I don't really see what is so unbelievable about this.

I have no opinion on the alien one

Let's leave that to another thread.

...but you understand the big difference in terms of merit of an someone claiming that a giant human eating a bird than compared to the miracles that happen around the world. Regardless if it is caused by any certain religion.

I don't really see a difference. Neither have been confirmed by evidence and frankly many alleged miracles sound equally as ridiculous to me as Bigfoot.

 

[Matt]

As for Bigfoot I don't really see what is so unbelievable about this.

Yeah, me neither.

And also, if ghosts exists I don't see how some sort of higher power doesn't, as the basic principles of ghosts defy all logic

 

[Alter]

That just proves that science is always improving towards real knowledge while religion stays at one fixed and unsupported point. Also, the ancient Greeks knew the Earth was round. Just because scientific knowledge is mutable (that's why it is so great! It improves!), doesn't mean that the method is flawed or that everything we know now is false.

...but it also shows that stance on religion is not always right. Religion does improve on the person who is interpreting it. Staying on the fixed idea fundamentalism is of course wrong but when you move past that and start to accept both science and religion together than to start to understand how both are both right in some certain sense.

 

[cookiecutter]

I would agree with you that the existence of ghosts would be some supporting evidence for religion.

 

[Alter]

I don't really see a difference. Neither have been confirmed by evidence and frankly many alleged miracles sound equally as ridiculous to me as Bigfoot.

But what about the ones that are not has ridiculous have a certain amount of merit?