Anyone else hate triggering toms?
- Thread starter Ermz
- Start date
P-E
Munchkin
462studio
462 Studio
When triggering toms based on the mics I don't usually have an issue - IF - it's my kit or a kit I've miked.
I have a set of very specific miking technique for my drums that works specifically for triggering. Allowing for the best possible natural tone while still allowing very clear transients for triggering.
If they are someone elses tracks that I'm mixing, yeah, all bets are off. It's usually a fucking nightmare.
I have a set of very specific miking technique for my drums that works specifically for triggering. Allowing for the best possible natural tone while still allowing very clear transients for triggering.
If they are someone elses tracks that I'm mixing, yeah, all bets are off. It's usually a fucking nightmare.
While we're on the topic, I've got a question.
I recently made a session with trigger tracks as well as the mic'ed tracks at the request of a mixing engineer.
While quantizing the drums I decided to see how much latency there was between the mic'ed tracks and the triggered tracks and was surprised to see that it appeared to be inconsistent. Like 70-90 samples of delay.
I was kind of hoping to just delete a few samples from the triggered tracks and that they'd line up perfectly with the acoustic tracks but if they aren't delayed by the exact amount on each hit then that wouldn't work huh?
Is this normal?
I was looking forward to using the triggered tracks as my "q" points while quantizing to alleviate the painful transient finding process but not at the expense of inaccuracy.
I recently made a session with trigger tracks as well as the mic'ed tracks at the request of a mixing engineer.
While quantizing the drums I decided to see how much latency there was between the mic'ed tracks and the triggered tracks and was surprised to see that it appeared to be inconsistent. Like 70-90 samples of delay.
I was kind of hoping to just delete a few samples from the triggered tracks and that they'd line up perfectly with the acoustic tracks but if they aren't delayed by the exact amount on each hit then that wouldn't work huh?
Is this normal?
I was looking forward to using the triggered tracks as my "q" points while quantizing to alleviate the painful transient finding process but not at the expense of inaccuracy.
Jaymz
Stymphalian Productions
Fifth_Horseman
Watch out, it's sharp!
Yeah I share your pain. I did it for my band's debut album because Dan Swanö (who will mix and master it) has a mandatory requirement in his pricelist to be sent MIDI tracks for all drums, otherwise he will charge extra for the resulting editing hours. Food for thought!
Took me about 25 hours for 10 songs . First triggering with KT Drumtrigger and then manually aligning EACH midi note by hand/ear, as well as setting velocities.
I calculated that there are probably between 3000 and 3500 tom hits on the album.
Next time I have to do it differently. Somehow. There just has to be an easier way.
Took me about 25 hours for 10 songs . First triggering with KT Drumtrigger and then manually aligning EACH midi note by hand/ear, as well as setting velocities.
I calculated that there are probably between 3000 and 3500 tom hits on the album.
Next time I have to do it differently. Somehow. There just has to be an easier way.
yeah, get a drummer who hits the toms like a man not a sissy
- hehe, bin gespannt auf euer album! hoffe die kosten lohnen sich für euch!
plague_rider
Coffee
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
Toms by nature don't have the same sharp transient as a snare or kick because their sustain is so "huge" compared to the transient. Most drummers suck hard at hitting the toms well, including me. For my upcoming album where I also play the drums, I'm going for as little sample replacing as possible and will therefore not replace the toms. Not only because of not wanting to replace but also because it is as most of you say - a pain in the ass to replace toms
Luckily, my filtering method in REAPER saves me a lot of trouble with toms since it allows me to boost the high end pretty much as much as I want without boosting any bleed in the toms. Then I can compress and fuck with the dynamics as much as I want too, pretty awesome stuff. Sometimes though, the snare makes the filter open up and the snare gets boosted through the toms but I edit the snare transient out of the toms by hand when there is a problem with it. After that, it's alright.
Luckily, my filtering method in REAPER saves me a lot of trouble with toms since it allows me to boost the high end pretty much as much as I want without boosting any bleed in the toms. Then I can compress and fuck with the dynamics as much as I want too, pretty awesome stuff. Sometimes though, the snare makes the filter open up and the snare gets boosted through the toms but I edit the snare transient out of the toms by hand when there is a problem with it. After that, it's alright.
fade_2_black
Member
Triggering toms is alright as far as workload is concerned. Replacing toms is a completely different story. Unless they have been micd with the intention of replacing tom sounds, ifs often very, very difficult to hook up.
Melb_shredder
Orpheus: Melodic Death
It really just depends on what you have to work with really. I had a mate get me to mix some drums for him and the mic'd toms were... well, I'd say there was more snare than tom in the fucking mics... So I just used their guitar pro tracks to midi the toms in...
I imagine that if YOU the one mixing are also micing the drums, that issue is immediately nullified because we all know what WE expect from mic's when doing our editing mixing and so on!
Also, it doesn't help if you're recording a shit kit :S
I imagine that if YOU the one mixing are also micing the drums, that issue is immediately nullified because we all know what WE expect from mic's when doing our editing mixing and so on!
Also, it doesn't help if you're recording a shit kit :S
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
I second that Erkan... care to share that with us?
Also, am I the only one here using Jonas Drumreaplacer (JS) in Reaper? At least with the songs I'm working on it is very good, and replaces even the toms correctly. The Stillwell JS plugin triggering a sampler works like a charm too.
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
Sure thing, I made a thread about it a while ago but it didn't really catch on to people.
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...me-way-minimize-bleed-drum-tracks-reaper.html
Read through the thread and listen to the clip. To my ears, the attack of the drum stays pretty much the same although one dude in the thread claims he hears a loss off high end in the attack but I think that's just psychoacoustics playing a trick on the mind because of the reduced bleed in the tom's tail.
Some people in the thread think this is the same as just gating the drum which it is not. A simple gate would still keep all the high end sizzle and shit from the cymbals/snare in the tail and THEN cut it all off when it drops below the threshold. This method filters out noise immediately after the tom has been struck. It works wonders for me and has saved me from doing replacement on my toms because after this filtration I can just compress and EQ the tom to my taste and it barely affects the tail.
I still cut my toms just like most of ya though. There's no reason to have all that "silence" in the toms if it's not supposed to be heard anyway. Cutting out silence also helps your hard drive as it does not have to keep reading the file in vain. But if I didn't cut my toms and if I didn't filter with this method I get a nasty hollow snare sound because of the tom mics mixing with the snare. If I only cut/gate the toms then I get a very apparent boost in the snare and cymbals every time the toms' gates are opened.
Reaper is quite awesome in some ways and I'm looking forward and hoping it will develop into an even better competitor against CubendoTools.
mickrich
Member
- Aug 2, 2007
- 1,753
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Triggered toms sound like @ss IME.
I usually track stuff that I mix and always make damn sure the toms are tuned properly. I use DW pro triggers as mutes for the toms. They are great at this job but I don't even cable them.
I can often be heard shouting "HIT THE FUPPIN' TOMS HARDER" through the talkback mic at the drummer. Weak tom hits, or even worse, fast flutter rolls with no definition are my worst enemy when it comes to mixing so I make sure it doesn't happen when tracking.
I usually track stuff that I mix and always make damn sure the toms are tuned properly. I use DW pro triggers as mutes for the toms. They are great at this job but I don't even cable them.
I can often be heard shouting "HIT THE FUPPIN' TOMS HARDER" through the talkback mic at the drummer. Weak tom hits, or even worse, fast flutter rolls with no definition are my worst enemy when it comes to mixing so I make sure it doesn't happen when tracking.
If you receive toms that you have to trigger without them putting a DDRUM trigger on that tom for you then you absolutely should murder that band ASAP.
