Geno_
zerocool
great effort and great information again!
off topic i wish i was as eloquent as ermz/alot of the guys around here.
off topic i wish i was as eloquent as ermz/alot of the guys around here.
Systematic Mixing Series #2: In Soviet Russia, Drums Slam You
- Thread starter Ermz
- Start date
Jahbulon
PA
- Jul 16, 2008
- 121
- 0
- 16
Thanks a lot Ermin. Your whole series compiled in a .pdf would be absolutely awesome. I have a .pdf of the reaper user guide on my Ipod for reading absolutely anywhere and I think it has helped me learn the program inside and out. I would definitely read your series all the time though.
Mate, respect for going to the effort but you need to sort out the phase section. She not right.
Wow, that's quite a bit of info! I appreciate the effort Ermz, I really hate mixing drums and can never get a snare going that i truly like. will come in handy for sure! :bowdown:
Cool. Do we have a consensus on where the phase section is incorrect?
I knew the aligning close mic transients to OH business wouldn't be up everyone's alley, but is that the extent of it, or is there more?
I knew the aligning close mic transients to OH business wouldn't be up everyone's alley, but is that the extent of it, or is there more?
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
time aligning != phase phase aligning. I learned that in this thread:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/...und-maybe-coolest-plugin-aid-dual-micing.html
koalamo
Member
Idk what the general consensus was but make a book man I'm sure people would buy it I would this is extremely good information
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
If you're really wanting to align your overheads and room microphones with your close mic'd, you should consider moving the OH and Room tracks forward and align them to a central element of your drumkit (the snare or the kick), not the other way around (not moving the kick to the OH, then the snare, etc). Takes less time, sounds more natural, and is tighter (considering the drums have been already edited).
One more important thing to do though is to move the left or right oh and room microphones to make sure the snare is right in the center (if the microphones were not perfectly positioned you will have the snare coming up earlier in one of your track). Same applies to the volume of those.
Well, actually the reality of it is that you shouldn't physically move them but use your DAW's track playback delay to get this right. Two reasons for that: it's non destructive, and you have to do it once for your album instead of doing it for every song, at the risk of moving it slightly differently for each song.
Haven't finished reading though, it's sooooooo loooooooong
One more important thing to do though is to move the left or right oh and room microphones to make sure the snare is right in the center (if the microphones were not perfectly positioned you will have the snare coming up earlier in one of your track). Same applies to the volume of those.
Well, actually the reality of it is that you shouldn't physically move them but use your DAW's track playback delay to get this right. Two reasons for that: it's non destructive, and you have to do it once for your album instead of doing it for every song, at the risk of moving it slightly differently for each song.
Haven't finished reading though, it's sooooooo loooooooong
Lasse Lammert
HCAF Blitzkrieg
If you're really wanting to align your overheads and room microphones with your close mic'd, you should consider moving the OH and Room tracks forward and align them to a central element of your drumkit (the snare or the kick), not the other way around (not moving the kick to the OH, then the snare, etc). Takes less time, sounds more natural, and is tighter (considering the drums have been already edited).
One more important thing to do though is to move the left or right oh and room microphones to make sure the snare is right in the center (if the microphones were not perfectly positioned you will have the snare coming up earlier in one of your track). Same applies to the volume of those.
Well, actually the reality of it is that you shouldn't physically move them but use your DAW's track playback delay to get this right. Two reasons for that: it's non destructive, and you have to do it once for your album instead of doing it for every song, at the risk of moving it slightly differently for each song.
Haven't finished reading though, it's sooooooo loooooooong
Never understood why people wanna move drumtracks to phase align them tbh...
I think the mics should be positioned so that the snare is centered...and I also think the snare hits etc should be a bit later on the overheads, makes it sound more natural...bit like a pre-delay or something, it's an essential part of the room- and hence the drumsound IMO.
but I'm aware that many people are doing it differently....just never understood why.
EDIT: sorry, didn't read the entire thread....has all been said before, sorry for repeating it
DigitalMetal
Building a Mini SSL
yup i think if you HAVE to do anything, moving the overheads in relation to the most prominent sounds like kick & snare is the way to go generally, and also phase allignment and time allignment are slightly different areas that get blurred together in this subject, eg time delay cause by mics being different distances from each other and how long it takes for the sound to hit them, and phase/orientation of your mics, eg a snare top and bottom mic being 180 degrees phase inverted from one another - this is a pretty clear cut fix, you hit the phase invert button on one of the two pre amps and voila all should be well,
but what about when a mic is not 180 degrees out of phase but only say 90 degrees?
I guess the old skool way is to keep dicking about with your mics
a) and most importantly until it sounds good or
b) try a phase llignment plugin like
http://www.soundradix.com/
http://www.geardownload.com/images/screenshot/48089.jpg
http://www.geardownload.com/images/screenshot/48089.jpg
http://www.uaudio.com/store/special-processing/little-labs-ibp.htmlhttp://www.uaudio.com/store/special-processing/little-labs-ibp.html or the hardware version http://www.littlelabs.com/ibp.html
Ive never used one of these plugins but id certainly be interested in hearing any experiences anyone has with them.
As Ermz mentions I too would wholeheartedly recomend Glen Frickers acoustic drums metal guide as a companion to this drums section as it does contain some useful relative info that will help when i comes to the mixing
but what about when a mic is not 180 degrees out of phase but only say 90 degrees?
I guess the old skool way is to keep dicking about with your mics
a) and most importantly until it sounds good or
b) try a phase llignment plugin like
http://www.soundradix.com/
http://www.geardownload.com/images/screenshot/48089.jpg
http://www.geardownload.com/images/screenshot/48089.jpg
http://www.uaudio.com/store/special-processing/little-labs-ibp.htmlhttp://www.uaudio.com/store/special-processing/little-labs-ibp.html or the hardware version http://www.littlelabs.com/ibp.html
Ive never used one of these plugins but id certainly be interested in hearing any experiences anyone has with them.
As Ermz mentions I too would wholeheartedly recomend Glen Frickers acoustic drums metal guide as a companion to this drums section as it does contain some useful relative info that will help when i comes to the mixing
Brett - K A L I S I A
Dreaded Moderator
Univeral Audio Little Labs IBP is definitely my go to plugin when needing to work on phase. It's a very very nice plugin (to be honest, all UA plugins are great, without any exception), very useful, and can be used to abuse and sculpt your guitar sound (I mean in a creative way, not just to fix phase) when you have multi-mic'd cab.
DigitalMetal
Building a Mini SSL
interesting thanks, ive been very tempted seeing as its only $99, But quite like the idea of the soundradix one too, i dont have time to try either out just yet but i will asap.
drew_drummer
Dancefap
Thank god for bulb's superior presets, now I don't have to remember any of this
Aye. Now you can focus on gobbling as much big hair cock as you can possibly fit in your mouth!!
Sacha
Throbbing Member
Very nice write-up, thanks for doing this! It would be illuminating to hear before and after clips of the raw drum recordings vs. the final mixed drums.
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
DanLights
Santa Hat Forever
Backe
Space Cowboy
I rarely call someone a god, but man.. you're pretty fucking close. Now tell me how to mix the bass!
