anyone here NOT using TS every time?

[TheWinterSnow]

Blue plastic... Behringer V-amp??

exactly!

 

[Erik Monsonis]

I may be retarded and didn't get the irony when I saw the blue plastic joke (if it ever was a joke), but I love the sound Splat88 gets with his POD. I don't know if he uses the built-in TS, a hardware one or none, but sounds ace.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

well put, very similar to how bob gets huge POD tones for TGM, even though now hes stepping away from it for an Ax-FX.

 

[Erik Monsonis]

Well, to be honest, I've never been really fond with Bob's tones... It suited the music but didn't add anything special. I'd love to hear how does his tone improve with tubes or a different sim. However, his music is slaying, but the tone... just too digital sounding for my taste.

 

[TheWinterSnow]

I feel the same, when you really listen to the tone its nothing impressive, however for the style music he plays it fits so well. LIke you said I am curious to hear how his tracks would sound with a more accurate sim or a real tube amp.

Unlike Bob's opinions when he had burn bright reamped through real tubes, I found that tone fit the mix a hell of a lot better than his POD, but Bob and many other sneapters didn't think so.

 

[Via Noctis]

I know this is a VERY moot point but James Hetfield didn't use one on the earlier albums.. (the good ones)

 

[Metaltastic]

I never play withOUT one. Hell i used to used them on my Solid State amps, including my Spider II. I can't stand the sound of lows and low mid saturation, it always sound like muddy old man hairy nutsuck.

+ a metric fuckton!

I have seen questions like that and find myslef scoffing at them, "why do you need a cheep device infront of an expensive amp to sound better?" hell OD pedals are the same price as pickups. Its not about the price though, OD's pedals are extremely simple circuits, a few resistors one LED a few resistors one capacitor and an opamp, thier job is to roll of the low end to control how much bass goes into the amp as well as add some very light clipping. They do nothing more than act as a high pass filter to pump the amp with more mids, making it more precussive and more gainy in the mids. YOu don't need a fancy expensive schematic to achieve the end result

Hehehe, I just had an epic debate over on the boogie board with a guy about why people use OD pedals before their amps; I said what you said (the bass tightens with TS-type pedals because of the low-filtering effect), he said it was because "the hotter signal compresses the input tube more, tightening it." Not knowing enough about electronics or how tubes work to fully deny this, I let it go and agreed to disagree, but I still have my doubts! Here's the thread if you're curious (page 2 is where it starts)

And actually, anyone else who wants to chime in on this, I'd really appreciate it; not that I have some mission to prove this guy wrong, it's just piqued my curiosity!

 

[Metaltastic]

I can't stand the mid-hump generated by a TS. That's why I always use a sd-1.
Sounds very polished, but some may find it a bit too edgy.

Yeah, I do often find myself notching around around 1-1.5 dB at around 730 Hz to tame the mid hump, but I'm sure I'd find that much easier than wrangling the grain I've heard in a lot of SD-1 clips (and I find the SD-1 much grainier than the TS7, and to be clear, higher-mids usually means 2k-3k)

 

[Metaltastic]

haha true. I think the OP meant OD but said TS as they are commonly swapped around though. I think the whole idea behind the thread was asking who uses OD pedals to drive the amp harder

Wait, but this goes against what you said in the post I quoted above...which do you feel contributes more to the tightening benefit?

 

[TheWinterSnow]

Hehehe, I just had an epic debate over on the boogie board with a guy about why people use OD pedals before their amps; I said what you said (the bass tightens with TS-type pedals because of the low-filtering effect), he said it was because "the hotter signal compresses the input tube more, tightening it." Not knowing enough about electronics or how tubes work to fully deny this, I let it go and agreed to disagree, but I still have my doubts! Here's the thread if you're curious (page 2 is where it starts)

what an idiot. Bottom line is that different freqiencies have different tonal characters when distorted and lower frecnqucies get muddy, with an OD your not increasing the output volume, your pumping the amp with more mids and less bass

Yeah, I do often find myself notching around around 1-1.5 dB at around 730 Hz to tame the mid hump, but I'm sure I'd find that much easier than wrangling the grain I've heard in a lot of SD-1 clips (and I find the SD-1 much grainier than the TS7, and to be clear, higher-mids usually means 2k-3k)

I use the SD-1 and the 2-3k area is pretty easy to handle imo, a .5 q at 2.5k scooped out about 3-4db is all you need. I also take out the 730 area as well to.

Wait, but this goes against what you said in the post I quoted above...which do you feel contributes more to the tightening benefit?

OD's basically compensate output volume to keep it at unity relative to the level knob. Basically as you being to roll down the bass naturally the total output volume is decreased. Most OD's at least my SD-1 bumps up the volume of the signal the higher you set the pass to so that the total output volume never changes. So as you sweep through the tone knob, you do not hear a decrease in volume. Essentially you are bringing the the bass down and replacing it with more mids. Youa re not actaully increasing the volume or total saturation, you are just shifting where the saturation is happening, less form the bass and more to the mids and highs. That is why OD pedals sound more pumped or like the amp has more gain, it really doesn't most of the saturation is being used to saturate all the low end power which as we discussed sounds like shit.

So to answer your question, OD pedals pump the amp drive the amp by pumping it with more mids to compensate for the lack of bass that you rolled off. Output volume for when you sweep the tone knob stays the same.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

I don't boost my 5150.

However I'm not to big on not boosting the DR.

 

[bibz]

The recs I've played def coulda used a boost, 5150 can go both ways, same with my jsx. It doesn't 'need' it but I like having it for extra tones. Theres enough gain already, and the amp alone has a nicer feel but its great having a slightly more compressed sound with a different eq when I want it.

 

[RiF]

As I am heading for a more natural/raw amp sound and I hate TS's (and derivates), an EQ-pedal where I dip the 400 Hz range to clean up the lows and boost the overall level is my tool to drive the amp harder and keep it tight in the bass.

 

[cobhc]

I did some recordings lately with 8505 without using a TS because I was trying to get something more like the old school At The Gates/Arch Enemy/Carcass kinda grindy tone, and I must say I did quite like it.

 

[Harry Hughes]

We talking about a real TS?
Not a real TS, but I stopped using the TS simulation on my POD X3 Live because it sounded weird.

 

[cobhc]

When using a TS lately I've gone back to using a hardware one before my DI box, rather than a plugin, as I've found the real TS to be a lot quieter, and obviously do a better job with more of the desired effect.

 

[cobhc]

I know this is a VERY moot point but James Hetfield didn't use one on the earlier albums.. (the good ones)

Are you saying Ride The Lightning wasn't a good album?

Kill 'Em All was Marshall boosted with a ProCo Rat
Ride The Lightning was a Marshall with a TS

Anything after that was mainly Mark Series Boogies, and I don't think anyone would ever need to use a TS with a Mark Series Boogie, not in the sense of tightening up the low end anyway.

 

[greyskull]

Depends on the band ,player, guitar and amp.
More rocky stuff I'll say no. Uber metal probably.
I've found that amps that have diode clipping like my 800 2205 don't need more from the t.s and are tight enough. That and I'm not playing djent so much these days. Using a telecaster and an 800 without a ts has totally Influenced the wAy I write, and for the better.

 

[ze kink]

I'll always try both and see which I like better. Also, I'll not always use a TS either, I used to have a modded SD-1 earlier which was my favourite for a long time, but I sold it to buy some other stuff. Right now I don't really boost with anything, I don't have an amp that likes boosting, and all the dirt boxes I've got are a Fulltone OCD v4 clone and an EHX Little Big Muff w/ Tone Wicker (gotta love it with the Wicker on and tone bypassed BTW!). I'm going to build my own TS soon though.

 

[dani]

OD's basically compensate output volume to keep it at unity relative to the level knob. Basically as you being to roll down the bass naturally the total output volume is decreased. Most OD's at least my SD-1 bumps up the volume of the signal the higher you set the pass to so that the total output volume never changes. So as you sweep through the tone knob, you do not hear a decrease in volume. Essentially you are bringing the the bass down and replacing it with more mids. Youa re not actaully increasing the volume or total saturation, you are just shifting where the saturation is happening, less form the bass and more to the mids and highs. That is why OD pedals sound more pumped or like the amp has more gain, it really doesn't most of the saturation is being used to saturate all the low end power which as we discussed sounds like shit.

So to answer your question, OD pedals pump the amp drive the amp by pumping it with more mids to compensate for the lack of bass that you rolled off. Output volume for when you sweep the tone knob stays the same.

exactly.