API VS Focusrite

[gabriel g.]

I did not realize that there are speed issues with preamps, but the second part of the clip clearly shows it. So that's why my fast picking turns to mud, seems I am forced to play doom until I can upgrade

dont go crazy here
You can do fine with cheap preamps.
Its not like someone can play too fast, so the transients dont get amplified

 

[aramism]

i'd think a more fair comparison as far as similar class pres would be api vs great river. one of these days i'll do something similar with a reamped track as i have both.

in my experience without posting samples i'd say that the api is certainly a beast but in some applications i've always felt the great river to have a little more brightness and bite in the right frequencies to stand out in a mix. it depends on the genre i guess. api is smoother a little bit. hopefully next week i can have something to post.


on edit: recently i had a project where i couldn't decide which one to use and ended up using both on separate sides of double tracking.

 

[Trevoire520]

Wow quite a difference there. Definitely more mud in the focusrite.

Would love to hear how the GAP Pre 73 holds up against these two.

 

[Genius Gone Insane]

I figured API would sound a little better but that's a pretty big difference.

 

[MarcusD777]

Lasse have you had any issues keeping the API preamps at a reasonable level on the outputs into your converters when driving them for extra color and distortion with drums?? I know these bad boys run super hot soo I'm looking for a means to tame the line level signal out out the API into the Fireface 800 running at +4 dBu... Are there any line level attenuators that don't affect the tone like some mic pads would?? The input pads of the API would seem to defeat this purpose of running them hot for color on the ouputs ...

 

[MarcusD777]

Bumps upside yo head...

 

[AHChris]

Well the low mid punch makes the difference really obvious... API GAS engaged, Lunchbox is still empty -.-

 

[Trevoire520]

The more I listen to this the more I think that a song that had everthing tracked through the octopre could potentially come out pretty muddy in the end. Obviously you can compensate with eq but the API just seems like it would make life so much easier.

I don't have money to spend on a A2D dammit! I'm a student ffs!

 

[Soundlurker]

Obviously you can compensate with eq but the API just seems like it would make life so much easier.

Not entirely sure you can. Listen to the dynamics - the API keep the low/lowmids in check, where they get messy and loose with the Focusrite.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

Lasse have you had any issues keeping the API preamps at a reasonable level on the outputs into your converters when driving them for extra color and distortion with drums?? I know these bad boys run super hot soo I'm looking for a means to tame the line level signal out out the API into the Fireface 800 running at +4 dBu... Are there any line level attenuators that don't affect the tone like some mic pads would?? The input pads of the API would seem to defeat this purpose of running them hot for color on the ouputs ...

just set your interface accordingly.
on my API I can adjust every input indiviually in 0.1 dB steps.
I think on the RME stuff you have -10, +4 and high gain switches.

the octopre sounds a bit clearer than the Control24 pres btw.
The RME pres sounded muddier/woolier than the Octopre in the last shootout I did (some time ago, files might still be here though)

Edit:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/equipment/361056-another-mic-pre-shootout-battle-cheapos.html

(without the clips though )

 

[~BURNY~]

Not entirely sure you can. Listen to the dynamics - the API keep the low/lowmids in check, where they get messy and loose with the Focusrite.

To be fair, this seems to be specific to API, not sure a Neve type pre would be a lot clearer.

 

[mickrich]

This test isn't really fair to Focusrite.
The C24 pres are nothing like Focusrite's ISA pres.
I have 9 ISA channels (828 and 220) and have an API A2D.
The APIs are certainly a bit more forward sounding, the ISAs are fine pres and I prefer them for some sources.
re the discussion on API output being too hot if you drive them, the A2D is great because it has a pre-converter level control which lets you drive the pre as hot as you want then adjust volume before conversion.

 

[Soundlurker]

To be fair, this seems to be specific to API, not sure a Neve type pre would be a lot clearer.

True, I'm just commenting on the comparison between these two and for this particular task. I'm happy with my Octopre LE but it's no mystery for me why people spend so much on a pre if the source has already been taken care of

 

[~BURNY~]

I was meaning to quote Trevoire, sorry.

 

[El_Gato]

i'd think a more fair comparison as far as similar class pres would be api vs great river. one of these days i'll do something similar with a reamped track as i have both.

in my experience without posting samples i'd say that the api is certainly a beast but in some applications i've always felt the great river to have a little more brightness and bite in the right frequencies to stand out in a mix. it depends on the genre i guess. api is smoother a little bit. hopefully next week i can have something to post.


on edit: recently i had a project where i couldn't decide which one to use and ended up using both on separate sides of double tracking.

Everytime I see Great River or any expensive pres reviews lately, I think of this thread:

Gearslutz

 

[Lasse Lammert]

Andy has te Focusrite Red and he says they're great preamps, but he's not using them often cause they tend to be a bit cloudy/wooly in the low mids.
I don't understand this "APIs are too hot" thing though, I've never used a converter that couldn't be adjusted to fit the output level of the preamps

 

[AudioGeekZine]

thanks for the shootout Lasse

what I heard
the c24 wasn't as tight in the low mids which made sound like it captured more lows and subs than the API but I don't think that's true.
The API is a touch brighter which brought out more fizz (comparatively).
It also seemed like the amp had more gain through the api, more aggressive but I guess it's just a faster preamp.
The API was tighter and didn't have that 'woofy' sound in the lows that the c24 did on the palm muted parts which definitely makes a difference.
API is great, I can see using far less eq and multi-band compression for those tracks while mixing. OTOH, with some eq and compression, transient shaping, you may be able to make the c24 sound just like the api.

Everytime I see Great River or any expensive pres reviews lately, I think of this thread:

Gearslutz

Also a good shootout. Clearly audible difference but both very usable sounds.

I did the test without reading the thread first.
A lot of people complain about having a different performance in shootouts but I say its still valid, especially here where its 3 tracks layered and more like a real life scenario.
anyway
Apple (GR) has far more highs and 'airiness' than the other. Maybe brighter than real life. Captures the attack of the bass with much more clarity.
Orange (ART) thicker lows, doesn't have that 'air' that apple had. Guitar sounds boxier with less pick definition. Bass is rounder which can be good. Overall sound is less exciting.
Strictly as tonal choices, the ART pre can be useful at times but you wouldn't want that color for all your tracks.
I wonder if that ART MP is the same as the Behringer 100.

Someone kept mentioning the Pre73, that design is much slower than the API design, even slower than the c24 pre, but a little more flexible with the drive control and impedance switch. It's not a bright and fast pre like an API, its supposed to be fat and slow like a Neve.

 

[Mesa4x12er]

Everytime I see Great River or any expensive pres reviews lately, I think of this thread:

Gearslutz

I remember that thread. I just did a shootout a few weeks ago I posted on here and even within the high end camp there are big differences in sound. Not necessarily better or worse, just different.

 

[El_Gato]

Yap, I remember listening to them back then and I heard minimal differences but there were some flavours for sure. I personally have little experience with pre's: RME latest ones, 003 focusrite, SSL Alpha Channel, Avalon and some low end ones but the feeling is that converters and a slight mic movement can affect the tone more dramatically than the pre itself.

That GS thread is very funny, even I thought of asking for a video for proof, lol. Definitely, not a 2200 € difference in the case of GR vs Art. In fact, I preferred Oranges over Apples.

I admit the API's use to win all tests but the difference is tiny and I'm not spending that much money for them right now. This opinion may change when I hear myself through an API though

 

[Trevoire520]

Yap, I remember listening to them back then and I heard minimal differences but there were some flavours for sure. I personally have little experience with pre's: RME latest ones, 003 focusrite, SSL Alpha Channel, Avalon and some low end ones but the feeling is that converters and a slight mic movement can affect the tone more dramatically than the pre itself.

That GS thread is very funny, even I thought of asking for a video for proof, lol. Definitely, not a 2200 € difference in the case of GR vs Art. In fact, I preferred Oranges over Apples.

I admit the API's use to win all tests but the difference is tiny and I'm not spending that much money for them right now. This opinion may change when I hear myself through an API though

To be honest a converter change is going to have even less of an effect on the sound than a preamp change. Converters are designed to be as flat and accurate as possible, whereas some pre's are designed to give a certain colouration to the sound.