Are Microphone IR Impulses Pointless?

[mick thompson]

Are Microphone IR Impulses kind of Pointless?

Like... okay say you want to put an impulse on the vocal track. the vocals are never going to sound as clean as a DI'd guitar because they have been naturally compressed and tonality altered due to the microphone which recorded them in the 1st place right? making it impossible to actually record a di of vocals

or say you have a pre amp and you decide you want to add an impulse of a 1960 cab. that 1960 has already been tonality altered due to the microphone which has picked up the noise generated for making the impulse.

thus wouldn't adding a microphone impulse kind of not work on a track? it would example be like taking a recording of a pre amp & a cab and running the cab's tone through another impulse of another cab making it overly bass, mid & treble heavy according to the impulse.

so where could it be used in a real world environment? just acoustic guitar?

 

[Force666]

Like... okay say you want to put an impulse on the vocal track. the vocals are never going to sound as clean as a DI'd guitar because they have been naturally compressed and tonality altered due to the microphone which recorded them in the 1st place right? making it impossible to actually record a di of vocals

I don't theoretically know the answer to your question. But when I read it I thought of Voice - Microphone = signal vs. guitar - pickup = signal. And regardless you end up putting the di of a guitar through a preamp. I think vocals are pretty much a di anyways.


On another note. I know there is the "Antares Microphone Modeler". Not sure if it's the same technology as an IR, or maybe it is. Never really heard anything about it from anyone though, so maybe it's a joke anyway.

 

[AllanD]

I completely see where you're coming from. If you record with an SM57, and use an MD421 IR, you're mixing the sm57 with the IR, which in the end won't sound at all like what you want. The same thing goes with cabs though, the amp you're running the wave through is going to affect the cabs actual tone. The real thing you're trying to achieve though, is a good sound. If it sounds good, why complain about the process?

 

[AeternusEternus]

In one impulse, you're getting power amp coloration, cab/speaker sound, and microphone coloration. It's impossible to eliminate just the microphone from that equation.

I don't even know HOW you make a microphone IR..

 

[crosstalk]

I don't really know what I'm talking about or if this would even be possible.

What if you recorded with say an sm57 and used an inverse of an sm57 impulse then a md421 impulse? I only think of this because someone made that impulse to null some amp sim's built in cab modeler. Seems like there would be way more variables trying to apply something similar to microphones.

 

[tarnationsauce2]

I don't really know what I'm talking about or if this would even be possible.

What if you recorded with say an sm57 and used an inverse of an sm57 impulse then a md421 impulse? I only think of this because someone made that impulse to null some amp sim's built in cab modeler. Seems like there would be way more variables trying to apply something similar to microphones.

There is a product that does exactly what you are talking about. It's called the Antares Microphone Modeler. I have never used it but always have wanted to see how well it works.

It even has proximity and pattern. Looks like fun.

 

[Jind]

There is a product that does exactly what you are talking about. It's called the Antares Microphone Modeler. I have never used it but always have wanted to see how well it works.

It even has proximity and pattern. Looks like fun.

It works so well it was pulled from the market after maybe a couple of years if I recall correctly.

 

[tgs]

It works so well it was pulled from the market after maybe a couple of years if I recall correctly.

Haha, classic...

 

[PhilR]

I think mic impulses are pointless in the same way that, to a certain degree, cab impulses are pointless. Specifically they give you a static, one-dimensional imitation of the real thing whereas the real thing will always respond differently to the source material. Plus, you can't put in what was never there to start with.

 

[JohnnyMcFly]

I used that Antares Mic modeler and it was excellent! Especially on vocals..Never used it on anything else. I definately would recommend its use. I am with Phil overall though, unless its something like the Mic Modeler above, I have never had any good luck using them any other way. They always added a weird sort of resonance...

Crosstalk,
Mathematically thats right, Christian Doppler Cancellation Principle...but IMO the impulse would be so different from the original mic sound that you could not be assured of the results. I am guessing that you would end up adding frequencies in areas and removing them in others, and canceling whole sections of frequencies where the recording WAS right.

Try this, without changing any settings anywhere, without moving a mic, nothing, do absolutely nothing different and record 2 impulses, one will be different than the other. With no changes to equipment, settings, or placement.

That type of thing you're talking about needs to be processed...and even then its not that accurate...But it sure would be an interesting experiment and you would probably end up with a pretty original sound...

KM

 

[Vandyn]

there are some IR kinda "akg414 minus sm57"... but i don't think they'll work miraculously...

 

[everybody's x]

I used that mic modeler once on a di'd guitar with a 57 and a 421. modeled each as each other and the waves nulled. It works surprisingly well

 

[-Noodles-]

As someone pointed out, a DI from a guitar has lot less "character" influence than a mic / pre does.
If you put an IR over a mic'd signal, you'll get a combination of the "IRs". It maybe cool, it may not.
Try it out is what i'd suggest..

There's not a reason why you shouldn't, but you won't get a "modeling" effect from it like you would an ampsim.