Autumn Reflection & other Lyrics?

CaGeD iN

Wandering on Ypres Rd.
since this topic is about autumn reflection i thought i would ask this here, im christian so i read the lyrics before i get music, and i read autumn reflection and in the absence of grace, i found the lyrics rather opposite from eachother in religious views, would u mind explaining that, im just curious
 
Well I don't write the lyrics, only the music. But I can tell you that I don't think Autumn Reflection necessarily has alot to do with religion. It's more or less about how the birth of Paul's daughter brought new hope for him into his life at a time when he was having a hard time finding much to be happy about.

Paul's obviously much better suited to explain his lyrics of course. But I can say that we've never taken a pro-religion or anti-religion stance with our music. The overall theme, if you can call it that, on the Pale Haunt Departure cd deals with different emotions and difficulties and questions that arise when dealing with the hardships and tragedies that life throws at you. At least that's what I get from it.

I like the idea of people interpreting the songs in their own ways, even if it's not the same meanings that were intended by the songwriters. As long as people don't misunderstand in a negative way (like if people thought we were being satanic or violent or anything along those lines.)

In any case, since this thread is about the video shoot and not really about our lyrics, we'll take this up in another thread methinks....
 
CaGeD iN said:
I'm christian so i read the lyrics before i get music, and i read autumn reflection and in the absence of grace, i found the lyrics rather opposite from eachother in religious views, would u mind explaining that, im just curious

I will do my best to answer this for you. This is hard for me to give you an honest answer, because I almost NEVER explain my lyrics to people, unless it's more obvious. Being honest, I don't even explain them to my wife when she asks. On a side note, for the past year I have been writing a "book" of all my lyrics from all our CDs, and on the opposite page I am writing a detailed explanation of what each song is actually about. I'm not sure what I'll do with this when I'm finished, but it will certainly give you a clearer picture into my life, and what my motivation was for each CD, and song.

Anyway, to answer your question, you need to know where i'm coming from. I was born and raised catholic, attended 8 years of CCD, was baptized, and confirmed, and used to attend church as a child, all because of my family and my upbringing. When I was old enough to ask questions, and form my own opinions, I developed a lot of internal conflict. Where as the thought of a heaven and a God to exist in the afterlife sounds like paradise, my lack of faith makes it hard to believe in this. I have HOPE that something better is waiting for me when I die, but my mind works in solids, where I need proof to believe, so it's always been a struggle.

I'm not religious, but I am spiritual. I have a deep respect for eastern meditation, and finding internal peace, and balance within a state of Zen. I'm not a crazy nut either, I just believe your mind has more power over your self being then we realize.

You want honesty? Here you go.

I was in a very dark place in my life (and still am to a degree.) I have an illness, and without getting into many details, it's a degenerative spinal disease, which causes great amounts of pain 24 hours a day. There is no cure, and nothing they can do to stop the degeneration process. It's been a long 6 years since I was diagnosed, and have taken Vicodin in mass amounts daily for over 5 years now. I am a full blown addict to the pain medication, and because of the drugs, and the pain, I also suffer with insomnia and depression. I'm only even talking about this on the forum right now, because I'm pretty high on the pain meds as I type this. I tend to become more "open" in this state, and actually write many of my lyrics like this, as they come out much more honest.

Nows the part I'm sure I'll regret typing later and may even delete this...

I was ready to check myself out of this world, and 'Swallowed By The Moon' was actually a note I wrote for my newly born daughter. To this day, I still regret keeping these lyrics on the CD, and wish I had changed them before we recorded the song. I actually had the suicide all planned out, and the first 3 months of my daughters life I put up a front, and didn't want to bond with her, to make it easier to do what I needed to do, which was end the pain, at the ultimate cost. No one knows this about me, not my wife, my family or friends, or my band. I had notes written for every one of them. I KNOW, no one has any idea just how close it actually came. The night I was going to do it, I had quite a bit to drink, for liquid courage, and loaded my 9MM. I was going to go outside to the back yard of my house, and do it in the grass, so not to make a mess for my wife to have to deal with in the house. I went into the room where my baby was sleeping to say goodbye to her, and she woke up. She always cried when she woke up, as most infants do, but this time she didn't. She just looked at me and smiled. It was the first time I saw her smile, and it was at that moment I felt the bond between us. My daughter saved me that night. She became my strength, and the reason I needed to stay here.

'Autumn Reflection' (her name is Rhiannon Autumn) was written for her, so she'll always know what she meant to me, even long after I'm gone someday. My "faith" is in the love of her, and not in any religious being. The confusing lyric in the song for you must be "I thank the heavens above for the angel beside me today." It's metaphorical. I'm saying there IS something better out there, and that something is unconditional love. That's heaven to me.

You'll find in much of my lyrics, they deal with that struggle between faith and hope. As Larry said, I'm not pro, or anti religion. I just pose questions, possibilities, doubt, and sometimes moments of hope within my own mind. I'm asked all the time if I'm Christian because of the lyrics, and I can't really answer yes or no.

'In the Absence of Grace' is about the internal struggle of being raised to believe that God exists, and he is all loving. If there is a God, then how could he allow something like my illness to dehumanize me daily? If there is a God, then he hates me, and turned his back on me years ago. It's anger at it's fullest. It's anger at the possibility there is no God, and it's anger that there's the possibility of a God. It's all about the struggle and the anger because of it.

Now that I've totally put it out there, and said much more then I should have, please don't offer any sympathy for my situation. I'm a stronger person because of it. I've always lived for the challenge, and now I've been given a good one. My life, although difficult physically, is fulfilling and I have more to live for now then ever before, so don't worry about my state of mind.

Hope this answered your question. :lol:
 
Wow! That was a great read! almost moved me to tears...

Ok im off to listen(carefully) to Swallowed by the Moon...
 
Oh my God...

I couldn't imagine that the "Swallowed By the Moon" lyrics dealt with a real occasion of your life, Paul.
 
Alot of people don't realise what our lyrics are about. To be fair, I guess that's to be expected especially if you don't know anything about us personally or our history or Paul's condition, etc. But it's also why we've gotten very defensive in the past when people have criticised our lyrics and written them off as being "pussy shit" or cliched. For the past couple of albums Paul has written purely from his own personal experiences. We're not a bunch of dramatic goths writing evil sad poetry here haha

I hope that you're glad Paul was able to answer your questions openly and honestly as he did. At the same time, I hope people appreciate his honesty and openness because this is hard shit for him. To be completely frank, it's hard stuff for me to read and hear as well. A big part of me thinks that it's really nobodies fucking business what his lyrics are about, to be honest with you, but I also know what it's like to be a fan and want to know more about the meanings behind songs and stuff. But as I said, since Paul is willing to open up about it, then I guess that's fine.
 
We're a lot better if you know what it all really means. haha

I agree with Larry 100%. It is no ones business, and it's a reason why I choose NEVER to talk about them, because they are so personal to me. It is exactly why I get so defensive of the lyrics, when I get slammed for them. People have no idea how honest, and truthful they are. I have always said, I write as my form of therapy and use the lyrics as an outlet.

I'm not honest and open to people too often, not even family or friends, so for me to do this in the forum was difficult. The only reason it's still here is my wife read it, and asked me to leave it up. (Shes a frequent lurker and member here, but has not yet posted.) She said it might help someone else, so unless I freak out about it, I'll leave it up. I don't like showing weakness, and I feel very vulnerable with my chest wide open in a public forum, but if it helps some of our true fans of the band get a deeper insight into the music, and gain another level of appreciation for it, then I'm proud to feed that.
 
Paul, thank you very much for sharing that information.

Part of what attracted me to the band so much was the lyrical content of Autumn Reflection. I was a relatively new father myself when Pale Haunt came out. Those songs were very timely for me with what I too had going on in my life.
 
Dragon_Unearthed said:
Thank you, Paul, pure courage...
yes, i had no idea, im sorry if your wife found out because of this, as for "in the absence of grace," i know what your saying, there is no concrete proof, but i believe that if there isnt a god in the end, what do you have to lose. And if there is there is eternity at hand. I also know what u mean about disagreeing with the preachers, my faith has evolved off of most of my own ideas. If there is a god, i dont believe he hates you, try reading the "book of job" from the bible. im not trying to be a preacher here, i just am saying what i believe. Paul, it took a lot of guts to say what you did, and im sure few people could do that.
 
Wow, this is incredible reading. I always appreciated the depth and honesty in the lyrics, but I had no idea it was this real. It was amazing that you opened up on the forum like this, I can't believe the courage it must've taken.

Edit: and regarding those people who were negative against the lyrics, they can in all honesty go screw themselves. Really heartfelt lyrics often come off in the wrong way to some people, as the feelings are personal.
 
I spent a day trying to come up with something appropriate to reply with, but I'm at a loss, so I'll just add my name to the list of people writing Wow. I doubt I'll ever listen to the song the same way again.

Ken
 
I agree with CaGeD iN- the book of Job is a great place to study about the faithful being dealt hardship after hardship and how that fits into God's plan, which is pretty much beyond our understanding. The main idea is that dealing with the pain in the moment is hard, but ultimately it's not our place to understand why so much as it is to be faithful through it.
 
chupe666 said:
I agree with CaGeD iN- the book of Job is a great place to study about the faithful being dealt hardship after hardship and how that fits into God's plan, which is pretty much beyond our understanding. The main idea is that dealing with the pain in the moment is hard, but ultimately it's not our place to understand why so much as it is to be faithful through it.

The key to this is faith, and I have none.

I know for many people, their faith is what helps them to deal with situations in life, and I honestly wish I had some sort of crutch to use so things would be easier, but I'm too strong willed to remove all doubt in something without concrete proof. It's like telling me pigs can fly, and expecting me to believe it. Unless I see it, there's no way I'll buy it. Sadly, even after 8 years of religion in my life, all it taught me was basic morals, and a foundation of right and wrong, mixed with a catholic pummeling to fear God, and never question what was being taught. I had too many unanswered questions to have any sort of faith. I found my balance and my internal peace in life from other sources, like martial arts. It's why I feel the mind is powerful, and I say I'm spiritual, and not religious.
 
Buff, I knew something about this but never to this level of detail.
I think that feel rage by a situation that hurts you and your family is a good feeling, we are persons not gods and we simply try to do our best for the loved ones.
If the day comes and some god tell us we were wrong, ok match lost.
But people like us talking about how we should feel or act, what's right or wrong ? No way, I don't believe in a human who doesn't hate, so I wouldn't trust anyone but me or near ones.