Avatar cabs

[Ericlingus]

What do you think of these cabs? They seem like quite a deal at 480 for a 4x12 closed back with v30s. They have been getting good reviews too. How do you think it compares with a mesa cab?

 

[Exocaster]

The Avatar Vintage 4x12s? Those are killer cabs, from everything I've heard. Tone-wise, they'll be brighter than Mesa. They're a clone of the old Marshall cabs from the '70s, and even with the same speakers, a Mesa cab is darker than a Marshall (or clone). It's the cab design- Mesa just makes a thicker, heavier cab, which translates into darker tones.

Build-wise, the Avatars are supposed to be high quality, at least as good as a stock Marshall cab, probably better as at the very least the Avatars are all birch ply, IIRC, while the Marshalls have particle board backs on the 1960 series. (That's not to say the Marshalls are all particle board; that rumour has been floating around forever and it's simply not true. The cheap MG and Valvestate cabs are, but that's to be expected. The 1960s have had particle board backs since the mid-'70s. The TV, Mode Four, and Handwired cabs are all birch ply. I think the new Vintage Modern cabs are all ply as well, but I could be wrong.)

Some people have claimed the Avatar Vintage Series is made by the same people who make Bogner's cabs (they make cabs for Diezel and VHT as well, I believe) as the designs are very similar. I've seen side-by-side photo comparisons of Bogner vs. Avatar, and they're not the same. The Bogner has a better build quality, but it should given it's twice as expensive.

Long story short, they're solid cabs. They'll sound a little brighter than the Mesas will. They're the best deal going cab-wise. Get the Hellatone 60Ls and save yourself some break-in time.

 

[Ericlingus]

The brightness worries me. My amp (mesa F50) is already one of mesa's brighter amps. But Mesa cabs are about twice the price of the avatar ones. I have heard sound samples of the mesa f50 with an avatar 4x12 cab with v30s and it sounded good so maybe i'll still go that route. How much of a difference tone wise would a 4x12 cab make rather than a 2x12 or 1x12? I'm talking about for recording only.

 

[Exocaster]

The brightness worries me. My amp (mesa F50) is already one of mesa's brighter amps. But Mesa cabs are about twice the price of the avatar ones. I have heard sound samples of the mesa f50 with an avatar 4x12 cab with v30s and it sounded good so maybe i'll still go that route. How much of a difference tone wise would a 4x12 cab make rather than a 2x12 or 1x12? I'm talking about for recording only.

Well, Vintage 30s are dark enough that I don't think it would be an issue. I manage to get darker tones from my Mesa Stiletto Deuce into a Marshall 4x12 with V30s, and the Stiletto is certainly capable of being very bright.

Vintage 30s are dark speakers to begin with- they don't have a ton of treble and they have a tight, focused low end. There are people who consider the V30 bright or harsh, as it has a pretty noticeable spike in the upper mids, but as far as I'm concerned, bright = treble, and something like a G12T-75, with its scooped midrange and emphasized top end is bright, while a V30 is inherently dark. An Avatar or Marshall V30-loaded cab is only bright compared to something like Mesa or Orange, the latter especially, which are thick, heavy cabs with a ton of low end.

I've had good success taming bright amps with my V30 Marshall cab. Along with the Stiletto, I've used it with a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL and a 1976 Marshall JMP 2204, the treble on which could reach icepick-to-the-ears levels really quick, and it performed admirably. Where She Wept on the forum here has heard my tone with both those Marshalls through that cab, and I think he'd attest it wasn't harsh at all. It's also matched up with the darker amps I've used it with- Mesa Mark IV and Bogner Shiva, among others- pretty nicely.

Comparatively, a 2x12, even an oversized one like the Avatar Vintage will give you tighter lows than a 4x12. Overall, the 2x12 will sound more "focused" while the 4x12 will sound "bigger". 1x12s can have a nasty habit of sounding boxy, as they'll lack quite a bit of lows compared to a 4x12 or a good 2x12. The oversized Avatar 1x12 shouldn't have an issue in this department, though, and if you want to go the Mesa route, a Mesa Thiele 1x12 is one of the best 1x12s on the market for rock and metal tones.

For recording, if you're close-micing the cab, you should be able to get away with a 2x12 or 1x12 without an issue. If anything, it might be an advantage if you need clarity in lower tunings. There will be a difference, but it's not going to be one that'll make your tone unusable. It won't sound quite as large, as you're not moving the same amount of air and getting leakage from the other speakers into the mic, but it may be more controllable in the mix.

Hope this helps.

 

[J.DavisNJ]

I have an Avatar 2x12 and it's a good cab for the money. It's the older type and I would like something better now. BUT the new vintage series look like they are built better.

That said, I would go for a Mojo 4x12, but they are considerably more $$ and don't come with speakers.

-Joe

 

[iekobrid]

They seem like quite a deal at 480 for a 4x12 closed back with v30s.

Get the Hellatone 60Ls and save yourself some break-in time.

Avatar doesn't appear to offer Hellatone 60Ls anymore, just 60s. Also, strictly speaking, the 60Ls weren't V30s.

I've had an Avatar G212H with 60Ls for about a year now, and couldn't figure out why (besides greater interior volume) it sounded so much more unfocused and woofy than my Legacy 212 cab with V30s. I was under the impression that the Hellatone 60L was a specially broken-in, but otherwise standard, Celestion Vintage 30. Turns out that's true of the Hellatone 60, but the 60L is a Celestion "Vintage MF" -- the speaker used in Marshall's 280w Mode Four cabs.

"pecially designed to handle the extreme low end that dropped D, D-tuning and C-tuning guitarists demand... engineered to reproduce the balanced mid range and huge bottom end that are a pre-requisite for extreme hard rock and nu-metal sounds"


Overall the magnet and cone seem the same, but the MF's dustcap is noticeably wider and flatter than a V30's...

I bought a barely used Mesa standard 212 recently, but haven't compared it head to head with the Avatar or Legacy yet. I do find myself messing with the amp's controls a lot less often than with the Avatar, though.

 

[Where She Wept]

Well, Vintage 30s are dark enough that I don't think it would be an issue. I manage to get darker tones from my Mesa Stiletto Deuce into a Marshall 4x12 with V30s, and the Stiletto is certainly capable of being very bright.

I've had good success taming bright amps with my V30 Marshall cab. Along with the Stiletto, I've used it with a Marshall JCM 2000 TSL and a 1976 Marshall JMP 2204, the treble on which could reach icepick-to-the-ears levels really quick, and it performed admirably. Where She Wept on the forum here has heard my tone with both those Marshalls through that cab, and I think he'd attest it wasn't harsh at all. It's also matched up with the darker amps I've used it with- Mesa Mark IV and Bogner Shiva, among others- pretty nicely.


Hope this helps.

Yeah, you had a nice growl with that cab, too bad i only got to hear it in that reverb from hell basment. there were so many room reflections down there i couldn't hear anything when the full band was going. Haven't heard you with the Mark IV though, and how's that Stiletto?. That reminds me, I sent you a Myspace message, so lemme know what you've been up to.

back to the topic, A friend of mine just got an Avatar V30 2x12 and He said he's happy with it. I've only seen him 2x since he got it but he's running a 5150 II with it and it sounded good. He plays in standard though, so i don't know how it'd sound with some detuned metal guitars.

 

[Metal Overload]

I just bought an Avatar 2x12 vintage series with V30´s, and it´s awesome, easily one of the best cabs i ve hear, the construction is solid. go for it you wont regret