Bass, EQ and Compression

[Jevil]

Hi!, I'm new in this forum. I'm from Bilbao (Basque Country - North Coast Spain), 31 years old, and bla, bla, so on so on...
Well, I have many problems with bass guitars, I want to sound them powerful but not so, how could I say in your language...fucking horrible! I mean, I have to bring it to the back of the mix because otherwise it eats all the music. So anyone can tell me what kind of EQ and Compresion must have a bass guitar? Sure that I have'nt explain myself as I'd like.

 

[ApolloSpeed]

use two tracks, one take.....one DI, one mic'd bass amp. I like using Waves Rbass and Rcomp on the DI. Makes it smooth and deep. Then I blend some of the mic track to give it a little dirtyness!

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Nice bass
Nice bass amp (I prefer 10" drivers to 15" they sound alot more punchy to me)
Direct box, or XLR output from the pre of the amp
Decent mic infront of the amp (sm57 works fine but if you got better then go better)

Pretty much you got to start with good shit in order to end up with good shit.

My bass recording shit: Fender 1983 american J 4 string. Ampeg BA-210

 

[chadsxe]

I usually use a DI exclusive and clone the track to a HPF LPF filter. 800 - 2200. Then bring that back into the mix until I get the bite I want for the bass. As far as compression it depends on your goals.

 

[ConspiracyBass]

Pretty much you got to start with good shit in order to end up with good shit.

That applies to anything. Haha.

 

[johnjm22]

Am I the only one who can't stand the sound of a DI for fast music? It seems like the DI picks up too much of the bass strings slapping up against the fret board.

I have an Avalon U5, but I'd hardly ever use it for this very reason.

 

[greyskull]

sans amp
rack and plug in

lo pass the bass
and compress the fuck out of it, bnoost around 150 helps it sit, just watch where the kick needs to go too (50-90)

 

[brandy]

Nice bass
Nice bass amp (I prefer 10" drivers to 15" they sound alot more punchy to me)
Direct box, or XLR output from the pre of the amp
Decent mic infront of the amp (sm57 works fine but if you got better then go better)

Pretty much you got to start with good shit in order to end up with good shit.

I prefer that as well. 10'' speaker are way cooler to record than whoofy 15''.
I avoid to use the XLR output of an amp, i prefer a decent DI box. Amps-integrated DI's are usually noisy and not (very) usable for recording.

Am I the only one who can't stand the sound of a DI for fast music? It seems like the DI picks up too much of the bass strings slapping up against the fret board.

No, you are not the only one. i am with you ;-)

I of course track a DI, but i did not use that track in the mix most of the time. Often i use the DI o reamp with some dirty sounding destorting Amp simulation to blend with the (mostly clean) mic tracks.

But for one who realy wants to get a fat and deep bass with lots of low end - here you might need a good DI track.

Hint: Why not cutting everything above, say, 1000hz to get rid of that nasty string slapping (wich can sound realy cool when miced using a Hardtke rig or similar - but not via DI, IMHO)



But to answer the question of the topic started:

Nobody mentioned EQ!

You have to take care of the 150-200 hz area, here might be a conflict with the guitars... if you have too much energy here a bass will sound "boomy" and will sound dominant even when he is low in the mix. That means: You can't hear the bass, but he is still too loud. ;-)
That's your problem, when i understand that right.

Make shure not to overcompress the bass. Everyone tends to use too much compression (me too) here, you will end up with a similar problem like i described above. A multiband compressor can be a solution - do a search for andys C4 setting, now think about the "background" of that setting and apply that to a bass. You can tame the boomy frequencys while telling the attack and the string-slappings etc sparcle.


brandy

 

[Jevil]

Yeah, Brandy, you understood perfectly my problem. All it's a matter of EQ, I want to listen to the bass and guitars loud and proud, so i will have to do more experiments and of course, I'll try a multiband compressor.
Thanks

 

[chadsxe]

Am I the only one who can't stand the sound of a DI for fast music? It seems like the DI picks up too much of the bass strings slapping up against the fret board.

I have an Avalon U5, but I'd hardly ever use it for this very reason.

It really depends on the bass player and the bass. If you have a bass player with any type of studio savy then he or she shold know to avoid this.

 

[Seizure.]

I allways hi and lo pass it.. from about 80 hz, and from (usualy) 5/6 khz (its has to be one with the drums.. not sit on top, you'll be amazed how much this clears up a mix, if you lo pass it well..)

And make sure it has its lows around 180 (150 is were the guitars usually lye, watching that realy helps too) and some nice mids to make up for the cutting of extreem lows.. like 500 to 800 somewhere..

And bags of distortion help too hehehehe..

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

I prefer that as well. 10'' speaker are way cooler to record than whoofy 15''.
I avoid to use the XLR output of an amp, i prefer a decent DI box. Amps-integrated DI's are usually noisy and not (very) usable for recording.



No, you are not the only one. i am with you ;-)

I of course track a DI, but i did not use that track in the mix most of the time. Often i use the DI o reamp with some dirty sounding destorting Amp simulation to blend with the (mostly clean) mic tracks.

But for one who realy wants to get a fat and deep bass with lots of low end - here you might need a good DI track.

Hint: Why not cutting everything above, say, 1000hz to get rid of that nasty string slapping (wich can sound realy cool when miced using a Hardtke rig or similar - but not via DI, IMHO)



But to answer the question of the topic started:

Nobody mentioned EQ!

You have to take care of the 150-200 hz area, here might be a conflict with the guitars... if you have too much energy here a bass will sound "boomy" and will sound dominant even when he is low in the mix. That means: You can't hear the bass, but he is still too loud. ;-)
That's your problem, when i understand that right.

Make shure not to overcompress the bass. Everyone tends to use too much compression (me too) here, you will end up with a similar problem like i described above. A multiband compressor can be a solution - do a search for andys C4 setting, now think about the "background" of that setting and apply that to a bass. You can tame the boomy frequencys while telling the attack and the string-slappings etc sparcle.


brandy

You know come to think of it, my friends peavy DI out was no good. But I didn't get that shit hum or buzz out of the ampeg. I think it just varies from amp to amp.

 

[johnjm22]

I prefer that as well. 10'' speaker are way cooler to record than whoofy 15''.
I avoid to use the XLR output of an amp, i prefer a decent DI box. Amps-integrated DI's are usually noisy and not (very) usable for recording.



No, you are not the only one. i am with you ;-)

I of course track a DI, but i did not use that track in the mix most of the time. Often i use the DI o reamp with some dirty sounding destorting Amp simulation to blend with the (mostly clean) mic tracks.

But for one who realy wants to get a fat and deep bass with lots of low end - here you might need a good DI track.

Hint: Why not cutting everything above, say, 1000hz to get rid of that nasty string slapping (wich can sound realy cool when miced using a Hardtke rig or similar - but not via DI, IMHO)



But to answer the question of the topic started:

Nobody mentioned EQ!

You have to take care of the 150-200 hz area, here might be a conflict with the guitars... if you have too much energy here a bass will sound "boomy" and will sound dominant even when he is low in the mix. That means: You can't hear the bass, but he is still too loud. ;-)
That's your problem, when i understand that right.

Make shure not to overcompress the bass. Everyone tends to use too much compression (me too) here, you will end up with a similar problem like i described above. A multiband compressor can be a solution - do a search for andys C4 setting, now think about the "background" of that setting and apply that to a bass. You can tame the boomy frequencys while telling the attack and the string-slappings etc sparcle.


brandy

Good post, but why would overcompressing the bass cause a build up in the 150-200 area?

 

[johnjm22]

On a side note, I'd really like to hear peoples techniques for making the bass work with the rhythm guitars. I find that on good recordings the bass and rhythm guitar tracks are very cohesive. They work together to make a massive heavy sound, they're like one functioning unit.

I think often the "size" of the guitars is often determined by how well the bass is mixed with them...

 

[chadsxe]

Good post, but why would overcompressing the bass cause a build up in the 150-200 area?

It depends on how its tracked but generally the "150-200" area is in db speak lower then the mids (this is not to say it is not precived louder). When you compress the shit out of the other info the "150-200" is going to start creeping up to the same volume as the other stuff. Of course this depends on the given situation.

 

[johnjm22]

It depends on how its tracked but generally the "150-200" area is in db speak lower then the mids (this is not to say it is not precived louder). When you compress the shit out of the other info the "150-200" is going to start creeping up to the same volume as the other stuff. Of course this depends on the given situation.

Makes sense. Most of the time I use alot of compression on the bass. Maybe this is one of my problems...

I usually use either a 1/5 ratio or a 1/4 ratio, with a quick attack and a low threshold. I'm curious, how hard are you guys "hitting" the bass?

 

[chadsxe]

Makes sense. Most of the time I use alot of compression on the bass. Maybe this is one of my problems...

I usually use either a 1/5 ratio or a 1/4 ratio, with a quick attack and a low threshold. I'm curious, how hard are you guys "hitting" the bass?

I really depends on the style. I just recorded a finger style bass player with a cleaner metal sound. I had to hit it hard with a compressor but I also had to open up the attack more then I usually do to let things through.

 

[greyskull]

10 to 1, bout 10 db of reduction
medium attack, slow release

 

[johnjm22]

10 to 1, bout 10 db of reduction
medium attack, slow release

Wow that's alot. So your basically limiting the bass? What's the idea behind that?

 

[johnjm22]

If you have a bass player with any type of studio savy then he or she shold know to avoid this.

Would it be in the playing itself? or the preperation of the instrument?

I have a hard time seeing how a player could avoid this problem for up tempo "busy" music. I'm relatively new at this, but I've recorded my fair share of metal bass players and I've never had one that could avoid this problem.