Best DT ballad?

[Misanthrope]

DT are of the few DeathMetal bands who write really emotionals songs

More like almost the only in a meaninfull interesting way. Its sad but today's death metal has been reduced to uninteresting bands who write in a very inconsistent "riff" approach seeking the perfect "catchy" melodic riff or Brutal for the shake of being brutal with "hardcore" elements to appeal to more idiotic fans. Even my old favorite brutal death metal bands of the past have started to just throw themselves in the loop and repeat almost the exact same album everytime like CC.

 

[Misanthrope]

And what about Nether Novas? I may consider it as a "ballad" too, but this "patchwork structure song" always disturbed me and actually never made me really "feel" anything - nothing like Emptier Still did...

Patchwork? Please specify what is "patchwork" about it.

 

[DragonLady1]

Projector is such a beautifull and rich album i dont get why not that many people are into it...

me neither, I love that album

 

[DGR XVI]

Oh, by "patchwork" I mean a quite strange structure... as if fragments of different songs where put altogether. Excellent fragments each, may I add , but which doesn't fit well together. And the ending is quite abrupt... I have the feeling that this song was jsut about to begin... and it's finished


Projector is a very rich album I agree. It's only a matter of taste if I don't like it that much... quite irrational. Either, I can't really tell why Haven is my favourite album... I just know it is.

 

[King Chaos]

I just see Haven as a heavier (in a good way) version of Projector. It's got a similar dynamic overall, but is really just step up and out in each direction.

@Misanthrope: By 'patchwork' I assume he meant, not simply verse chorus... more unconventional and progressive song structures. Like I already said, I dont think a ballad can have too complex a structure. It should be based around a certain easilly followable progression.
:EDIT - I should have just let squirel answer it ...

 

[Misanthrope]

Oh, by "patchwork" I mean a quite strange structure... as if fragments of different songs where put altogether. Excellent fragments each, may I add , but which doesn't fit well together. And the ending is quite abrupt... I have the feeling that this song was jsut about to begin... and it's finished

I disagree its very coherent, all the parts fit togheter and create a good song, if anything i do not think you are paying atention to the lyrics because they fit perfectly with the song. Or maybe you are not used to listening to non linear or circular songs specially since many of the recent DT is alot more linear than Nether Novas.

 

[Misanthrope]

I just see Haven as a heavier (in a good way) version of Projector. It's got a similar dynamic overall, but is really just step up and out in each direction.

@Misanthrope: By 'patchwork' I assume he meant, not simply verse chorus... more unconventional and progressive song structures. Like I already said, I dont think a ballad can have too complex a structure. It should be based around a certain easilly followable progression.
:EDIT - I should have just let squirel answer it ...

Well all i can say to that is tell that to Opeth who have been producing ballads and otherwise more mellow songs based on extremely non linear structures.

 

[King Chaos]

Well all i can say to that is tell that to Opeth who have been producing ballads and otherwise more mellow songs based on extremely non linear structures.

They're just mellancholy prog songs. I don't think Opeth have made many ballads at all. I really havn't heard anything I'd call a ballad that has a generically 'prog' structure. As I said earlier, Dream Theater's ballads are simple and definately more structurally coherent... Like 'Another Day'...

 

[DragonLady1]

dunno but the damnation album of opeth is a whole ballad to me, great!

 

[Misanthrope]

They're just mellancholy prog songs. I don't think Opeth have made many ballads at all. I really havn't heard anything I'd call a ballad that has a generically 'prog' structure. As I said earlier, Dream Theater's ballads are simple and definately more structurally coherent... Like 'Another Day'...

Nonsense:

bal·lad Audio pronunciation of "ballad" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bld)
n.

1.
1. A narrative poem, often of folk origin and intended to be sung, consisting of simple stanzas and usually having a refrain.
2. The music for such a poem.
2. A popular song especially of a romantic or sentimental nature.

If you want to be strict about it then Dark Tranquillity has no ballads at all. Sentimental songs on the other hands, they have plenty of those. They might not be cheesy ballads like Another day but one is perfectly capable of making meaninfull and sentimental songs that are not linear ( ie on I&W Learning to live is as sentimental as another day but infinitely more complex and intrincate, yet doesnt takes away the sentimental feel away from it at all ).

 

[King Chaos]

consisting of simple stanzas and usually having a refrain.

I guess this is what I'm hung up over. Perhaps the two definitions were not intended to be able to exist on a mutual level.

I would agree that Damnation is made up of ballads, but listen to the songs. Most of them are just two parts with a couple of variations.

 

[Misanthrope]

Another day is not a folk poem, and honestly you'll have to look to power metal if you want to adhere to that definition. So you're hung over at a definition of ballad yet you post examples that do not follow said definition at all? That is what you get when you try to be too technical about genres or styles, just dont do it, take definition number 2, its much easier.

 

[Siren]

Best DT ballad for me: Auctioned.
(this is a special song for me as it's the song that introduced me to DT and metal).

I like Day To End a lot too, though i agree it's not the best they've made. But i find it emotional and i love the depth of Stanne's clean vocals on Projector.

Through Ebony Archways is one of the most beautiful songs ever.

Well, these are pretty much the only DT songs i consider as ballads.

 

[Traveler In Time]

Through Ebony Archways fuckin' rules!

 

[King Chaos]

Another day is not a folk poem, and honestly you'll have to look to power metal if you want to adhere to that definition. So you're hung over at a definition of ballad yet you post examples that do not follow said definition at all? That is what you get when you try to be too technical about genres or styles, just dont do it, take definition number 2, its much easier.

I used Another day as an example because it's a song by a truly technical band, but in it's essence isn't that technical. It's based upon one chord progression that just stems and grows, it never really "Changes". But yes, definition 2 is better, and like I said, Im just hung up over definition 1. A ballad is something you can whip a lighter out for.

 

[KryptoN]

... Its sad but today's death metal has been reduced to uninteresting bands who write in a very inconsistent "riff" approach seeking the perfect "catchy" melodic riff or Brutal for the shake of being brutal with "hardcore" elements to appeal to more idiotic fans. ...

Not at all... Well maybe this is the case with just the most popular bands. And the whole thing is a matter of opinion anyway. And what do you mean by 'idiotic fans'?

Well anyway I love all those DT songs mentioned.... except Auctioned (and maybe Nether Novas). I loved Auctioned at first but the more I listen to it the more annoying it gets. It just feels too repetitive to me and I don't like the vocals on it. Nether Novas doesn't feel repetitive but it too gets annoying(/boring) as I listen to it more, don't know why.

My absolute favourite of these so called "ballads" is Emptier Still, just so beautiful, emotional and brutal. In Sight is great too. The others are pretty much on the same line with each other in my opinion. :Spin:

 

[DGR XVI]

@Misanthrope : I listen to Symphony X, Dream Theater, Therion... so I don't think I'm not used to "non circular or non linear" songs
And yes, I read the lyrics and I really love them. More than the music

It may be something else. I know more complex and otherwise more coherent songs. But I agree with you: Nether Novas is a GOOD song. with a certain "artsy" feeling due to this strange structure.
........But some other DT songs are EXCELLENT songs.


(on another topic: I always thought Another Day sucked. a sax? WTF?!)

 

[Misanthrope]

Not at all... Well maybe this is the case with just the most popular bands. And the whole thing is a matter of opinion anyway. And what do you mean by 'idiotic fans'?

More idiotic fans? What i mean that is no surprise than hardcore kids usually do not really care about the music as long as it talks about hardcore themes or preaches its message. As ironic as it sounds they do not listen to music becasue of the music but because of the hardcore brotherhood.

 

[Misanthrope]

@Misanthrope : I listen to Symphony X, Dream Theater, Therion... so I don't think I'm not used to "non circular or non linear" songs
And yes, I read the lyrics and I really love them. More than the music

It may be something else. I know more complex and otherwise more coherent songs. But I agree with you: Nether Novas is a GOOD song. with a certain "artsy" feeling due to this strange structure.
........But some other DT songs are EXCELLENT songs.


(on another topic: I always thought Another Day sucked. a sax? WTF?!)

So you can appreciate symphony x and dream theater but think nether novas is too weird? Stupid fucking idiot shut the fuck up.

 

[DGR XVI]

Did I say "Nether Novas is too weird" ?!!! Fuck, I must type stg but stg else appears...


The poor little squirrel will cry because the big bad Misanthrope has been mean with him.....oooooooh.....

Seriously. I said I didn't like that much the structure of Nether Novas. It has nothing to do with an hypothetic "level of complexity" of this structure. Period.

You're a strange fellow indeed, but I like you