Best Metal Bands tournament

[poundingmetal74]

I'm willing to bet he was never asked this question until the early - mid eighties. Would you know ?

He said it a couple years ago during a radio interview.

 

[Priest of Evil]

Queen was indeed considered heavy metal and still is by people I know. (here's a thread on a forum discussing Queen being metal, many say they aren't but some say they are)

I think you kinda said it yourself - many say Queen arent metal but some say they are.
Lets rework that sentence a little now many say Judas Priest are metal but some say they are not. Ok, you clearly fall into that camp, thats your opinion, obviously no-one here can change that but by general consesus JP are.

I've had a personal struggle with JP in the past, some of their older work isn't far removed from rock at all but time has proven otherwise. For example, albums like Stained Class & Defenders of the Faith (aptly titled metal album) are metal and extremely influential, Priest stamped their authority on metal again with Painkiller.

 

[razoredge]

My gosh, man. Don't you agree that what you're expressing is just an opinion? The idea of what is abrasive, the idea of what is unique, even the idea of whether which level of abrasiveness and what style of music constitutes metal is highly debated and it comes from our hearts. Do you not think different people's opinions are valid? That only your own understanding of it is valid? I can't "feel it" because I'm not YOU. You can't feel what I'm saying because you're not ME. We're talking about feelings! I fully understand and I honestly have a lot of respect for your view of metal, as many of my close friends share it. But that's not how I define it. Do you think you could convince everyone that your version of metal is right? Or that this board could get a single consensus for what is and isn't metal?

Dude, do some research and if whats in print doesnt help you, then play the stuff I told you about back to back, its so friggin obvious. Its not my opinion, its printed fact as well as obvious to the ear canal/brainwave function. Its not MY version. Then I never said anything about unique. Im not talking about feelings. I understand you have to stick to your version theory and ignore the rest but dont put it on me, I have ears. Going back to bands mentioned in the first "soft" post I can play their early 80's albums and within two bars say "yep, thats metal" Use your ears and forget about that feeling stuff

 

[No-Mercy]

so who's gonna tell iron maiden they won?

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Dude, do some research and if whats in print doesnt help you, then play the stuff I told you about back to back, its so friggin obvious. Its not my opinion, its printed fact as well as obvious to the ear canal/brainwave function. Its not MY version. Then I never said anything about unique. Im not talking about feelings. I understand you have to stick to your version theory and ignore the rest but dont put it on me, I have ears. Going back to bands mentioned in the first "soft" post I can play their early 80's albums and within two bars say "yep, thats metal" Use your ears and forget about that feeling stuff

You are DELLUSIONAL.

Printed fact? Ha. Right. Do you know how many things get printed? There are plenty of things printed that declare Led Zeppelin as heavy metal. The back of the Song Remains The Same DVD, for one.

You really don't understand music, do you? People all hear it differently. You ARE talking about feelings. I've listened to all the stuff you mentioned. The stuff that IS soft to me, IS metal to you. That's not proof enough for you to acknowledge that people experience things differently? You think I need to "use my ears" but you're stupid to think I haven't been using them already. What you consider to be what makes metal metal is not what I consider to be what makes metal metal, so obviously I'm not going to listen to those things I mentioned and consider them to be metal.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

I think you kinda said it yourself - many say Queen arent metal but some say they are.
Lets rework that sentence a little now many say Judas Priest are metal but some say they are not. Ok, you clearly fall into that camp, thats your opinion, obviously no-one here can change that but by general consesus JP are.

I've had a personal struggle with JP in the past, some of their older work isn't far removed from rock at all but time has proven otherwise. For example, albums like Stained Class & Defenders of the Faith (aptly titled metal album) are metal and extremely influential, Priest stamped their authority on metal again with Painkiller.

That's a good point. But the way I always look at it is, if a band came out today, how metal would they be considered to be? We all know that Judas Priest was the metal gods, and always will be. But if a new band came out on the radio today sounding like them, I don't think people would consider it metal. People are always talking about this band isn't metal and that band isn't metal. We've had all these bands like Rage Against The Machine, Alice In Chains, Audioslave, who are being pretty heavy for rock bands. So I personally don't think Priest would be considered metal if they were new today. Keep in mind that I LIKE JP. I like rock. And Priest's latest stuff has been pretty heavy so that might still be considered metal.

 

[Wyvern]

You're not reading my posts at all, my friend. Be mature. Note the fact that I already said thrash is far from the only metal. How could you possibly have missed that?

1. I'm more mature than you will be in your entire existence.
2. Yes I probably read your post diagonally, it made much sense anyway than reading it normally

Let's face the fact kiddo, you're not going to convince anyone here about your viewpoint (and for what I have read viceversa). So let it go to the final point:

Hear what you like, believe what you like, live and let live, because neither you or anyone here is going to change its mind.

NP: Helloween - 'As Long As I Fall'

 

[razoredge]

That's a good point. But the way I always look at it is, if a band came out today, how metal would they be considered to be? We all know that Judas Priest was the metal gods, and always will be. But if a new band came out on the radio today sounding like them, I don't think people would consider it metal. People are always talking about this band isn't metal and that band isn't metal. We've had all these bands like Rage Against The Machine, Alice In Chains, Audioslave, who are being pretty heavy for rock bands. So I personally don't think Priest would be considered metal if they were new today. Keep in mind that I LIKE JP. I like rock. And Priest's latest stuff has been pretty heavy so that might still be considered metal.

This shows your disallusion and refers back to my first post regarding. You are saying that because time past what was once metal is no longer metal.

I dare you to find me a video copy of the Song Remains the Same from 1976 that states Zep was metal on the back cover...... wait....... did they have videos back in 76. I know nothing about music but you know lots about promotional propaganda....... right ?

Rewriting history, so when are you going to start on that Websters rewrite ? Well you do have a start. You've conquered the word "soft" and its a very large territory now that you have sized all the softies up, but at least you did it with feeling.

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

1. I'm more mature than you will be in your entire existence.
2. Yes I probably read your post diagonally, it made much sense anyway than reading it normally

Let's face the fact kiddo, you're not going to convince anyone here about your viewpoint (and for what I have read viceversa). So let it go to the final point:

Hear what you like, believe what you like, live and let live, because neither you or anyone here is going to change its mind.

NP: Helloween - 'As Long As I Fall'

Hahaha. As if I didn't already say that same point. You didn't read my posts at all, my friend. I said that I wasn't trying to convince anyone.

This shows your disallusion and refers back to my first post regarding. You are saying that because time past what was once metal is no longer metal.

I dare you to find me a video copy of the Song Remains the Same from 1976 that states Zep was metal on the back cover...... wait....... did they have videos back in 76. I know nothing about music but you know lots about promotional propaganda....... right ?

Rewriting history, so when are you going to start on that Websters rewrite ? Well you do have a start. You've conquered the word "soft" and its a very large territory now that you have sized all the softies up, but at least you did it with feeling.

Right-o. So the fact that Led Zeppelin is called heavy metal on their own DVD doesn't mean anything to you. You're rewriting history by taking away Queen's heavy metal status. And it's silly that you would claim Led Zeppelin was never called heavy metal back in the day. Of course they were! This is well-known. And get off of the Websters kick. Anybody who has read my posts knows full well what my angle is and that it has nothing to do with rewriting anything or telling anyone what to believe.

 

[Wyvern]

Exhibit A of the prosecution

Judas Priest is barely even a metal band. NWOBHM is teh weak. Bands didn't start getting heavy until thrash. Don't get me wrong, those bands were awesome, and Sabbath was too, but they're so soft... I mean Metallica, Slayer, they're pretty soft. But at least they're heavier than rock bands.

Okay, flame me away my brothers.

We are flaming you, what else do you want from us?


Exhibit B of the prosecution

Hahaha. As if I didn't already say that same point. You didn't read my posts at all, my friend. I said that I wasn't trying to convince anyone.

Nothing personal but your redaction is kind of boring, so like I said I read it diagonally. In anycase submit to exhibit A

NP: Andre Matos - 'Face The End'

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Exhibit A of the prosecution



We are flaming you, what else do you want from us?


Exhibit B of the prosecution



Nothing personal but your redaction is kind of boring, so like I said I read it diagonally. In anycase submit to exhibit A

NP: Andre Matos - 'Face The End'

I'm drunk and listening to Metallica right now so everything is good.

But it's nice that we agree about some thingz.

 

[Wyvern]

I'm drunk and listening to Metallica right now so everything is good.

But it's nice that we agree about some thingz.

Well I think you are surviving the newbie acid test. I can't guarantee we'll treat you nice always but keep posting, we need more regulars.

Curiously I was also listening to Metallica today but in the gym so I was pretty sober

NP: Heaven & Hell - 'Lady Evil'

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

Well I think you are surviving the newbie acid test. I can't guarantee we'll treat you nice always but keep posting, we need more regulars.

Curiously I was also listening to Metallica today but in the gym so I was pretty sober

NP: Heaven & Hell - 'Lady Evil'

That's fantastic news. I'll be sure to stick around. :Smokin:

 

[razoredge]

Zep & Queen never considered metal bands till people started trying to connect them to the more recent movement in the 80's that was metal and those people would be old fans trying to steal glory from the new style and promotion people looking to revive new interest and pick up some more sales. Influences ? Yes because they were heavy... heavy penatonic blues. Did they have a few songs here and there that would imply the roots of metal such as Immigrant Song, yes, but Lemon Song, Dyer Maker, Gallows Pole and the majority of the rest, not. LZ I? Not, heavy blues based Hardrock, LZ II ? Heartbreaker, Whole Lotta Love - riffs ? Not, pentatonic blues based hardrock.

Now listen to Savatages 1983 release Sirens or Maidens 1982 release Number of the Beast, or Metalicas 1983 release Kill 'em All, or Queensryche 1983 Queen of the Reich, the difference is musically obvious within seconds the songs begin. Its a totally different music, a new approach, a new way of playing, a new way of using the scales and these bands never backed off. No Bron-Y-Aur Stomp, or Going to California. It was a new sound and it was Heavy Metal.

ELP, Yes, early Chicago and early Fusion bands used elements that can be found in metal. Are those bands going to be listed as Metal bands now too ? "No thats just classic rock/heavy metal/progressive rock/ electroica/psychedelic/jazz fusion" ............ oh OK, so what about 82/83/84 Maiden, Metallica, Savatage and Queensryche, is that metal? "No thats softrock/blues metal" ........ Alrighty then !

All makes sense to me now.........

 

[SouthernTrendkill]

So then Sabbath was the only band called metal from 1970 to 1982? With the possible exception of Judas Priest? I have it on good authority that Zep was considered metal right along Sabbath. I find it baffling that you would believe it's impossible for Zep and Queen to have been called metal by some people in the early 70s. After all, there are a near endless number of different groups with different opinions about music. Again, do you think everyone on here would come to your same consensus? That everyone on this whole board would agree about what is and isn't metal? Nopes, it's not true.

The strange thing is, you're kind of pushing towards my angle rather than away from it now. Yes I believe Metallica represented a wholly new approach that was the approximate genesis of metal as a genre.

 

[Wyvern]

So then Sabbath was the only band called metal from 1970 to 1982? With the possible exception of Judas Priest? I have it on good authority that Zep was considered metal right along Sabbath. I find it baffling that you would believe it's impossible for Zep and Queen to have been called metal by some people in the early 70s.

Back in the good ol' days there was no distinction between heavy metal and hard rock ( I love what Baron Rojo called heavy rock ). Today revisionism and some people (includng musicians) deny what the music was about back then but trust me: Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Thin Lizzy, Judas Priest, Motorhead, AC/DC, Nazareth was the same in the 70's call it rock, metal, oonga-boonga or whatever

Clearly wasn't Beatles, Supremes or Simon & Garfunkel stuff.

NP: Heaven & Hell - 'The Sign Of The Southern Cross'

 

[razoredge]

I never heard the term "metal" till the 80's or late 70's but cant recall that well. I dont recall Black Sabbath being called metal in the early 70's. Around early 76 is when I stopped reading "Circus" and "Circus Raves" they cattered to the hardrock or alternative crowd, but I dont recall the alternative term either, so Im talking about stuff like Bowie, Mott the Hoople, Lou Reed, ect. They talked about new upcoming bands, tours ect. Thats when I was a teenager. I felt "Rolling Stone" sucked and only breezed through it once. they were still about "The Stones" The Beatles" "The Who" and other more wanky things, dont recall that well, twas along time ago. But I never once remember the term metal or heavy metal. Of course I remember the term applied to Zeppelin we all know "Gods of Thunder"

I bet their collectors out there that might have some of those Circus mags I read. Would be interesting to see, maybe Im wrong. Still doesnt explain the huge difference in sound and theory between early 70's hardrock and early 80's metal. Day and Night if your a musician or in my case a player and thats not just Metallica either, they were the sound of thrash, which brings us back once again to the first posts. Thrash is not the only form of metal.

Wyvern - actually what was great about the 70's was those bands were very different. Hard edge to blues and R&R based rock but very different sounds from each other. they stood out, apart from each other, all of them, the ones you mentioned plus Montrose, Trower, Bad Company, Mountain, Cooper, Uriah Heep, Atomic Rooster, Rush, Crack the Sky,Deep Purple, Humble Pie, Grand Funk, Free, what about Edgar Winters "Frankenstien", "Radar love" BTO's "Let it Ride" (only song I really liked by them) Ritchie Blackmores Rainbow, Aerosmith, Heart, early Benetar more I cant think of, but they all sounded different from each other not the cookie cutter, spin off bands like what happened in the later 80's and is still going on today. All different, all heavy, showed occasional elements of what became metal but was a completely different sound from what happened in the early 80's when the word "Metal" was on everyones lips. I actually call that 70's stuff "premetal" now because I know what influenced metal "before metal was cool" but it will always be hardrock to me cause thats what it was.

everyones fucked everything up the past 15 years or so by trying to reinvent the wheel and give it a new name and in the process has created many misconceptions and now everyones confused and doesnt know where to draw the lines in definations but their has to be lines and to me on this subject they became obvious around 82/83/84 when these new bands came out of the bar rooms, garages, where ever, got recorded and people took notice..... "hey! a new sound"

In more ways than one I think, at least here in the states it could be most contributed to Eddie VanHalen and his new guitar sound and technique that rocked everyones world in '78. Some people say "The Scorpions". some people say Def Leppard, some would say AC/DC, some would say Motorhead, but the majority would say Black Sabbath. To me the only dicy area is those new sounds that occured in the late 70's. But in 82/93/84 it became ovbious there was a new game in town and the word metal was everywhere.

 

[Pabla]

You're all dreaming MOTORHEAD will always win.

Maybe when Lemmy learns how to sing........

 

[Wyvern]

Maybe when Lemmy learns how to sing........

Yeah around the time Janick learns how to play

 

[No-Mercy]

Yeah around the time Janick learns how to play

OH shit...