Between the Buried and Me/Cynic/DEVIN TOWNSEND/Scale the Summit US Tour

[dcowboys311]

I think most folks' gripe with the Faceless is that there are more original bands in the same subgenre that get significantly less attention. I don't know about you guys, but I'd much rather see Augury, Spawn of Possession or Martyr opening shows than The Faceless.

Edit: or Obscura, Portal, Stargazer, Psycroptic, Neuraxis, Ulcerate, Gorod, Quo Vadis, Vengeful, Defeated Sanity, Dim Mak, Kronos, Decrepit Birth, Severed Savior, Atheretic, Unexpect, Alarum, Emeth, Gigan...

and just how many of those bands are from America? It's much cheaper to have The Faceless on a tour package.

For what it's worth I think they're a good band.

 

[dcowboys311]

even if it's considered "junk" it serves a purpose to people who go to shows and watch them. it's the new face of hardcore whether we like it or not.

I don't really get this. How can a band that's not a hardcore band be the new face of hardcore? Or even that style in general?

 

[Burnout]

and just how many of those bands are from America? It's much cheaper to have The Faceless on a tour package.

For what it's worth I think they're a good band.

Several are from Canada and all are preferable to a band as derivative as The Faceless

 

[the rhythm]

I guess I shouldn't complain. If I do go to this show, at least it will be an early night.

 

[dcowboys311]

Several are from Canada and all are preferable to a band as derivative as The Faceless

I know some of them are from Canada. The majority are not.

Do you really think they're going to draw as well as The Faceless?
Do you really think that it's easier for booking agents to have to deal with band visas? You've seen the kind of issues that Glenn has had with that.

Sometimes you have to deal with bands you don't like on tours because they draw well. I'd rather have 2 bands I don't like be able to tour with 1 band I do enjoy because those 2 bands draw a lot of kids than not be able to see that 1 band at all.

 

[AeonicSlumber]

and just how many of those bands are from America? It's much cheaper to have The Faceless on a tour package.

For what it's worth I think they're a good band.

No it's not. The band/label pays for flights and visas, not the booking agency/venue. In fact, if anything it would be cheaper to have a smaller band because The Faceless probably asks for a large guarantee.

edit: for a tour anyways. For festivals and one-offs it may be different depending on what the terms are between the promoter, agent, and band are.

 

[Burnout]

I know some of them are from Canada. The majority are not.

Do you really think they're going to draw as well as The Faceless?
Do you really think that it's easier for booking agents to have to deal with band visas? You've seen the kind of issues that Glenn has had with that.

Sometimes you have to deal with bands you don't like on tours because they draw well. I'd rather have 2 bands I don't like be able to tour with 1 band I do enjoy because those 2 bands draw a lot of kids than not be able to see that 1 band at all.

Yeah, I guess the business has to dictate things as such, but I'll still whine about having to see the same bro core band ape better bands' sound at show after show.

 

[TribunalRecords]

I don't really get this. How can a band that's not a hardcore band be the new face of hardcore? Or even that style in general?

EMMURE and the countless bands like them ARE the new face of hardcore. No it's not the Agnostic Front or Cro-Mags or even Terror. but it's what the youth consider hardcore, sadly enough. as a person who tours the country for 2 months every summer playing to kids in Emmure shirts i am a pretty good expert on the subject.

i mean i am partially to blame for keeping it alive as well, but i have to make a living. plus, i actually attempt to make statements while beating them to death with breakdowns unlike most bands out there today. i guess that is the 80s hardcore kid in me.

 

[TribunalRecords]

I think most folks' gripe with the Faceless is that there are more original bands in the same subgenre that get significantly less attention. I don't know about you guys, but I'd much rather see Augury, Spawn of Possession or Martyr opening shows than The Faceless.

Edit: or Obscura, Portal, Stargazer, Psycroptic, Neuraxis, Ulcerate, Gorod, Quo Vadis, Vengeful, Defeated Sanity, Dim Mak, Kronos, Decrepit Birth, Severed Savior, Atheretic, Unexpect, Alarum, Emeth, Gigan...

this is what everyone here is missing about ANY of these various arguments.

it's NEVER about talent on these tours. The Faceless sold over 5,000 units of their last album first week out. they have a label who is willing to BUY ON to any tour they want to do because their sales warrant it. it's all about money, it always has been.

the bands that aren't ruled by the almighty dollar are the same bands playing for us and 30 other people a night.

it's not just tours, it's magazine, webzines. it's all about money.

pick up any of your favorite metal magazines and the challenge is to flip through the magazine and look at who is featured in the mag with an article or cd review and then find the corresponding PAID advertisement from said record label. again, not faulting magazines for paying bills by any means but i read all magazines in a different light since i found out how the game was played.

 

[TribunalRecords]

No it's not. The band/label pays for flights and visas, not the booking agency/venue. In fact, if anything it would be cheaper to have a smaller band because The Faceless probably asks for a large guarantee.

edit: for a tour anyways. For festivals and one-offs it may be different depending on what the terms are between the promoter, agent, and band are.

yes, the band/label paid for overseas travel usually for tours. which is why we have never left the country. it's too expensive.

 

[Burnout]

this is what everyone here is missing about ANY of these various arguments.

it's NEVER about talent on these tours. The Faceless sold over 5,000 units of their last album first week out. they have a label who is willing to BUY ON to any tour they want to do because their sales warrant it. it's all about money, it always has been.

the bands that aren't ruled by the almighty dollar are the same bands playing for us and 30 other people a night.

it's not just tours, it's magazine, webzines. it's all about money.

pick up any of your favorite metal magazines and the challenge is to flip through the magazine and look at who is featured in the mag with an article or cd review and then find the corresponding PAID advertisement from said record label. again, not faulting magazines for paying bills by any means but i read all magazines in a different light since i found out how the game was played.

Yeah, I suppose that's all well and good, but it doesn't make The Faceless any less horrendous.

 

[dcowboys311]

EMMURE and the countless bands like them ARE the new face of hardcore. No it's not the Agnostic Front or Cro-Mags or even Terror. but it's what the youth consider hardcore, sadly enough. as a person who tours the country for 2 months every summer playing to kids in Emmure shirts i am a pretty good expert on the subject.

i mean i am partially to blame for keeping it alive as well, but i have to make a living. plus, i actually attempt to make statements while beating them to death with breakdowns unlike most bands out there today. i guess that is the 80s hardcore kid in me.

ah ok, I see what you mean now. I'm used to stuff like Have Heart, Sabertooth Zombie, etc when it comes to hardcore. But modern hardcore is still pretty alive -- I saw Bane/Blacklisted/Foundation last night at a DIY venue with about 250 other kids. So I guess it's just a different scene.

 

[Angrafan]

yes, the band/label paid for overseas travel usually for tours. which is why we have never left the country. it's too expensive.

Kinda...I mean, it's all built in the fee... You take all the travel costs and divide up between all the promoters... It's not like the band will specify to the promoter "10% is for travel, 20% to pay for the crew, 10% for the driver"... you just pay a flat fee and the band covers all the costs, that way no promoter is paying for an unfair amount...

You never left the country because your band(s) isn't big enough to cover all the costs of international travel (you can't charge local promoters enough to pay all the international travel)...

 

[TribunalRecords]

ah ok, I see what you mean now. I'm used to stuff like Have Heart, Sabertooth Zombie, etc when it comes to hardcore. But modern hardcore is still pretty alive -- I saw Bane/Blacklisted/Foundation last night at a DIY venue with about 250 other kids. So I guess it's just a different scene.

oh it's TOTALLY a different scene. i went to the BURNING FIGHT book release show with Underdog, Disembodied, Have Heart, Unbroken, etc etc etc. it was great to finally be at a hardcore show with everyone OVER 25 and i finally was not the oldest guy in the crowd. that was easily the guys in KILLING TIME!

kick ass

 

[TribunalRecords]

Kinda...I mean, it's all built in the fee... You take all the travel costs and divide up between all the promoters... It's not like the band will specify to the promoter "10% is for travel, 20% to pay for the crew, 10% for the driver"... you just pay a flat fee and the band covers all the costs, that way no promoter is paying for an unfair amount...

You never left the country because your band(s) isn't big enough to cover all the costs of international travel (you can't charge local promoters enough to pay all the international travel)...

we are totally big enough to cover the costs.

www.myspace.com/killwhitneydead
look us up, you may not dig it but we have the plays, record sales and the fans that support us. you would laugh if i told you how much i make in touring once a year. it's silly. just one of our videos on myspace has almost 250,000 views.

we are an independent metalcore band who turned down signing to CENTURY MEDIA two years ago and have toured the country (headlining) every summer for the last 4 years (going coast to coast). we are not a full time band by any means, we commit 2 months a year (because my real job is the label) each summer to tour and in this day and age that is pretty good that people still remember us each year considering we haven't released a new album in almost 3 years. we are self-sufficent band. so we are plenty big enough with offers from the biggest agencies to tour europe/uk/australia for the last 3 years.

but it's how we choose to spend our earnings. i am not a 22 year old kid living at my parents house. i am 37 years old and invest the money i make each year to pay my mortgage. i do not PISS my money away. if i want to SEE europe i will take a vacation. most bands come home with NO money from touring overseas and see nothing. i myself, would like to see where i have been.

we are the same with every overseas promoter. if you want us that bad then you invest the money to bring us over. we will SHARE profits once the tour breaks even. we want nothing until expenses are covered, but no one will take the risk themselves it always has to be on the band/label. we won't do it because touring overseas isn't like touring the US. all the barriers are more intense and getting f*cked is truly getting f*cked over there. i am too old for that crap, honestly. i listen to the horror stories from bands we are friends with and learn.

 

[J. Golden]

EMMURE and the countless bands like them ARE the new face of hardcore. No it's not the Agnostic Front or Cro-Mags or even Terror. but it's what the youth consider hardcore, sadly enough. as a person who tours the country for 2 months every summer playing to kids in Emmure shirts i am a pretty good expert on the subject.

i mean i am partially to blame for keeping it alive as well, but i have to make a living. plus, i actually attempt to make statements while beating them to death with breakdowns unlike most bands out there today. i guess that is the 80s hardcore kid in me.

this sounds like what I argued for years with you. Well Agnostic and Sick of It All will also be my hardcore. But I have learned over the years that you can't look back, things change.
When I heard that Don Henley cover and it said "I saw a Black Flag sticker" it really hit home. Funny how the smallest things can make one feel so old.

 

[TribunalRecords]

this sounds like what I argued for years with you. Well Agnostic and Sick of It All will also be my hardcore. But I have learned over the years that you can't look back, things change.
When I heard that Don Henley cover and it said "I saw a Black Flag sticker" it really hit home. Funny how the smallest things can make one feel so old.

you are SO getting punched on the way down to atlanta tomorrow.

it's a DEAD HEAD sticker on a cadillac! wait, did i just admit to listening to don henley?! sh*t!

 

[nomisofsiman]

Two BTBAM sets? I can dig that.

Oops! I meant Cynic the second time I put BTBAM. My bad.

 

[nomisofsiman]

What the hell happened to this thread? I must have missed something, but initially it was about the possibility of the BTBAM, Townsend, Cynic and Scale the Summit tour and now it's a discussion about hardcore, Emmure, etc. Really? Why? I'm guessing it has something to do with BTBAM although they've been distancing themselves from hardcore for a while now but this is getting ridiculous.

 

[J. Golden]

you are SO getting punched on the way down to atlanta tomorrow.

it's a DEAD HEAD sticker on a cadillac! wait, did i just admit to listening to don henley?! sh*t!

I was referring to the cover tune by the Ataris jackass, that was the point.
I own the Don Henley album.