Bill Maher's Religulous

No.

Atheism is absolutely ridiculous. You can argue as much as you'd like about "talking snakes" or whatever else will make you feel witty, but the big bang theory not only defies Einstein's theory of relativity, but common sense.

What the hell does atheism have to do with the big bang theory?

That's like saying that heavy metal music is ridiculous because dogs don't lay eggs.

And are you really citing a scientific theory as a means of refuting scientific theories?

An atheist is a man looking through a telescope trying to describe something he cannot see.

Wrong. An atheist is a man who acknowledges that he doesn't see anything in that telescope.
The believers are the ones describing something that they cannot see. Not only do they insist that they know there is a god - they insist that they know exactly how he operates and how we must live in order to satisfy him.

I literally cannot believe how backwards your point of view is right there. :p
 
Yay for maturity and calm debate on a topic that usually starts out with name calling and feces-throwing! Props guys.

Being a Protestant myself (although not your typical Protestant...) I'm looking forward to seeing what questions Bill gives, not necessarily the answers given back. Because of my unusual convictions and theology compared to the rest of modern day Evangelicals, I'd probably end up agreeing with Bill Maher more than the 'Christians' he asks the questions to. Knowing, of course, this documentary isn't solely based on Christianity but on organized religion as a whole.

Instead of hi-jacking the thread anymore, anyone know of a good review on this documentary that's up?
 
Not so at all, my friend. Sure, there are very strong atheists who insist, with as much conviction as an evengelical Christian, that god absolutely does not exist, but that is a rarity. To be an atheist simply means that you are not adopting a belief in a god, that you are simply not a theist. It's not even an opposing or alternative point of view - it's the absence of one.

(Insisting that a completely untestable, unfalsifiable, undemonstrable, and unverifiable assertion is true is alot more arrogant than assuming it isn't until proven otherwise. :))

Relate theism in general to some other practice or institution.....let's say astrology. If someone chooses not to buy into astrology, they don't have to adopt an alternative practice to take its place - you just get by without it. That's what atheism is. It's a meaningless word - a placeholder of sorts - simply to suggest one's non-involvement in theism. We don't go around calling everybody a-astrologists, but it would mean the same thing.

I cannot prove that god does not exist, and therefore my point of view is not based on the assertion that he doesn't. His existence cannot be proven or disproven, much like that of unicorns and leprechauns, and so I treat all such matters with the same attitude. Until strong evidence is presented for them, they are not worthy of intelligent consideration.

And concerning agnosticism, it's not more sensible than atheism because it's not an alternative. It is at best a modifier. Every human being who is honest would have to proclaim agnosticism, including theists and atheists alike. To insist that you know the answer is eliciting blind faith on either side of the argument. But that doesn't mean you have to hide behind ambiguity....
Think of it this way:
If someone insisted that invisible, undetectable unicorns existed, since you could neither prove nor disprove this contention - would you have to lend equal credence to either possibility? I don't think so, and most everyone would agree with me. Extroardinary claims require extraordinary evidence and the burden of proof is on those who make the assertion. It's the same with unicorns, faries, leprechauns, extremely ugly dudes who claim to have fucked supermodels and omnipotent deities. People may have compartmentalized their minds to secure religion from this sort of logical thinking, but not I, and not the majority of people who call themselves atheists.
Those who reject the term "atheism" and chose to wallow in ambiguity by calling themselves agnostics are showing that compartmentalized reverence towards religion, not pure logic. It's understandable - and I was stuck there myself for many years - but it's not a defendable point of view.

And considering anything spiritual or supernatural. I have as open a mind to that as I do towards anything else. Show me convincing evidence and I'll be right there with you. I have not concluded that nothing supernatural exists, I am simply operating on a logical assumption.

My motto is: Keep an open mind - but not so open that your brain falls out.

Is it out of fashion to say "Bravo"?

fuck it ...

BRAVO! :kickass:
 
Religion is supposed to be a guideline, and uplifting part of your life and beliefs that makes you want to do better and be a better person

I must be reading the wrong religious texts.

I think this sums up the bible pretty well. I use it all the time.
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You would have to read the whole thing to understand.
 
I must be reading the wrong religious texts.

I think this sums up the bible pretty well. I use it all the time.
1212326362504.jpg

You would have to read the whole thing to understand.

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

I love that one myself ;)

Remember, the key word in what you quoted was "Supposed". I was also referring to the idea of religion as a whole, not anything specific or codified whether it be the bible, tanakh, koran or anything else
 
Yay for maturity and calm debate on a topic that usually starts out with name calling and feces-throwing! Props guys.

Being a Protestant myself (although not your typical Protestant...) I'm looking forward to seeing what questions Bill gives, not necessarily the answers given back. Because of my unusual convictions and theology compared to the rest of modern day Evangelicals, I'd probably end up agreeing with Bill Maher more than the 'Christians' he asks the questions to. Knowing, of course, this documentary isn't solely based on Christianity but on organized religion as a whole.

Instead of hi-jacking the thread anymore, anyone know of a good review on this documentary that's up?

It'll be hard to get a very informative review.
This sort of thing really only seems to appeal to two camps: People who totally agree with him and people who are totally opposed to him.
All sorts of people of the secular variety will love this and give it rave reviews, and all sorts of people who are religious fanatics will fucking hate it and condemn it vehemently.
Unfortunately, the people who should really watch it and absorb it - the moderates and the undecided - probably don't care enough to give it a chance.

I hope I'm wrong.
 
Just in talking with some people about this movie, I think most have the wrong idea about Maher. Everyone I know assumes he is a vehement, strict atheist who believes that there is absolutely no god. If you listen to his interviews though, he claims he is an agnostic because there is absolutely no way to know if there is a god or not. How can you prove OR disprove something so..... intangible??

Personally, I think he's right. I'm an atheist leaning agnostic. My gut feeling tells me that there probably isn't a god, but I have no way of knowing for sure, so it would be stupid of me to decide otherwise. Similarly, I have no problem with those who believe like I do on the other side.

If, after examining the evidence, you decide that your gut tells you there's a god, then fine. Just keep you beliefs out of my school, my government, and most importantly my life!!!
 
I'm not making fun of anyone's religion, I'm too respectful of that and believe no one should be looked down on for what they believe.

I'm from the school of thought that religion should be mocked just because of the sheer arrogance/hypocrisy of it. I remember the day John Paul II died, they had it on CNN at work & I walked through the place singing "Ding Dong the Pope is dead!" at the top of my lungs.

I'm not claiming to have the answers, I'm just making fun of the people who claim that they do. Belive what you want to believe, just don't expect me to keep my mouth shut about it. Political correctness will not keep me from saying what's on my mind.

One of my favorite movies: Monty Python's "The Life of Brian" absolutely skewers Christianity... ....and it's fucking hilarious.
 
Nah, I agree with Mordoth only in the sense that Atheism is just the opposite extreme; utter denial of ANYTHING is the height of arrogance and oversimplification; who is to say that we know enough to entirely refute anything spiritual/supernatural? Just stay open-minded about the things we can't understand! Agnosticism FTW.

However, in general organized religion can eat a bag of penises.

+1000 :lol:
 
sorry metalhead28, i'm agnostic... and yet none of your arguments against the term (which don't hold much water, frankly) remotely apply to me, and i don't have to defend it. chew on that. i also do not believe that Maher is an atheist... he is however, brilliant.

i think OzNimbus' thoughts are the closest to what Maher is on about: "I'm not claiming to have the answers, I'm just making fun of the people who claim that they do. Belive what you want to believe, just don't expect me to keep my mouth shut about it. Political correctness will not keep me from saying what's on my mind."

as far as i'm concerned if you make no claim to knowing exactly who, or what... if ANYTHING.. is "god", then you are agnostic... you do NOT have to choose a side, and you do NOT have to defend your position.

if you claim to be an atheist then you are stating clearly that there is no higher power, no "god", period. you believe we are a cosmic accident. you have chosen a "side".

Maher is agnostic, and he chooses to poke fun at Theists who push their beliefs onto others... and he does it briliantly. i will buy this movie on DVD.

as far as i'm concerned, anying BUT agnosticism is pure arrogance... no one has any real idea whether or not there is any sort of afterlife or higher power. It's not a balanced scale though, sorry Theists... you're just way more annoying than atheists.
 
This is why I just worship myself. None of the other gods I've been told about seem sensible enough for consideration, so I figure I might as well be worshipped and have an awesome deity at the same time.

Jeff
 
The last time I jumped into a thread like this it ended up that I was "an idiot" and "has stopped attending school after 3rd grade" etc... even though I was just explaining what people believe (I was raised to be a "Pentecostal born again christian" attending an assemblies of God church most of my life). Truth be told it's hard to believe any of it anymore just due to life experiences, school, and the history of it all.

But if anyone has any questions shoot. Just don't call me names or you suck. :headbang:
 
as far as i'm concerned, anying BUT agnosticism is pure arrogance... no one has any real idea whether or not there is any sort of afterlife or higher power.

i have to disagree. at the end no one has any idea what is going on. ergo we have individual beliefs and faith. that is the whole point. the way i see it i would rather have my beliefs, rather than live a dry existence and make my time here more interesting. i am not religious necessarily, i just like to think and hope there is some sort of higher power. i may be wrong, i may be right, but honestly, our conscious selves are never going to know while we are alive anyway so why not have some faith??? i do agree religious radicals take it to extremes and atheists and religion haters take it to extremes as well. i've met some anti-religion people who jump on anti-religion talks like a hyena on a corpse and the ones i know have major self identity and security issues... same goes for radical christians/muslims/etc.etc.


point is being an extremist either way just makes things a lot harder. the bottom line is like i said before, no one knows jack shit. each of us have to have our own beliefs, or lack of. i am not very religious. i goto church on easter basically because it is more or less a cultural thing and i am fairly spiritual in my own way. my own moral fiber happens to coincide with what is written in parts of the bible. i don't kill, steal, commit adultry, etc. etc...

so because i happen to have those moral beliefs, does it make me a christian? i don't think so. at the end of the day, at the very core, the bible is there to kind of act as a moral handbook for the masses. i really don't see a problem with it. it is the fault of human nature that people like radical middle american christian cults, and other manmade organizations abuse the power and make fools of themselves. why people get so upset over those mass communions in the midwest (like in borat) where people fall on the ground i don't know. if they are happy, and they think they are enlightened, good for them. what's the point in people arguing and criticizing about shit they will never know the answers to anyway? just live your life and believe what you want to. i understand it is in our nature to do so but then people like bill maher shouldn't be so caught up in knocking these people down. he blames wars on religion. i call bullshit. religion is an excuse and an instrument for war. it is human nature that creates wars. all creatures on earth have wars and territorial shit and power battles. we just have more means to use tools and cognitive planning to achieve it. when lion prides battle each other for territory they are doing so instinctually. it is the same thing as hitler invading poland or napoleon conquering europe. wars can be blamed on human nature, not religion. yes a lot of religious wars have been started but those wars still have a centralized theme of power and control which stem from us. this means you can replace religion with anything else that would have been used as an excuse.

these are all of course my opinions, so don't take them too seriously.
 
This is why I just worship myself. None of the other gods I've been told about seem sensible enough for consideration, so I figure I might as well be worshipped and have an awesome deity at the same time.
+1

ALL BOW BEFORE TEH KRIZZPIES!:heh:
:)
I think this thread needs a chill pill before we get shit outta hand.
 
This is why I just worship myself. None of the other gods I've been told about seem sensible enough for consideration, so I figure I might as well be worshipped and have an awesome deity at the same time.

Jeff

Jeff, I thought it was an unwritten law around here that we all worship you, with your literary and rhetorical skills and vast knowledge of Tube Screamers. :worship:
 
sorry metalhead28, i'm agnostic... and yet none of your arguments against the term (which don't hold much water, frankly) remotely apply to me, and i don't have to defend it. chew on that....

So do you also refuse to believe that there are no unicorns and leprechauns? Because if you refuse to accept a stance on untestable claims - you can't fairly dismiss those either...that is, if you're being consistent.

I ask because if my argument indeed doesn't hold water, I'd like to find out why.

i think OzNimbus' thoughts are the closest to what Maher is on about: "I'm not claiming to have the answers, I'm just making fun of the people who claim that they do. Belive what you want to believe, just don't expect me to keep my mouth shut about it. Political correctness will not keep me from saying what's on my mind."

You might notice that I also condemned atheists who operate on the strong assertion that God does not exist. I freely admit that it is something that cannot be known - and likewise I accept the label "agnostic" (as should every honest person), but only as a modifier of sorts, not as an alternative to atheism.
And I don't claim to have any answers, but I'm not in the business of asking questions that cannot be answered.

as far as i'm concerned if you make no claim to knowing exactly who, or what... if ANYTHING.. is "god", then you are agnostic... you do NOT have to choose a side, and you do NOT have to defend your position.

if you claim to be an atheist then you are stating clearly that there is no higher power, no "god", period. you believe we are a cosmic accident. you have chosen a "side".

Atheism is a default position, and frankly a meaningless word that should not exist. In contrast, theism has to be learned and adopted. Like I stated before, what is the alternative practice that one must adopt in opposition to astrology? There isn't one. Same thing, really.

If someone insists that the flying spaghetti monster created the universe - I don't have to allow for the possibility that it's true or even acknowledge his assertion at all until he offers real evidence. The default stance is non-involvement, or non-belief in other words. Think of the implications if we had to respect every claim that every potentially crazy or delusional person made with absolutely no evidence; there would be no end in sight. There is no burden of proof on all of those who decide not to buy into an untestable claim, and atheists clearly belong in that category.

Maher is agnostic, and he chooses to poke fun at Theists who push their beliefs onto others... and he does it briliantly. i will buy this movie on DVD.

as far as i'm concerned, anying BUT agnosticism is pure arrogance... no one has any real idea whether or not there is any sort of afterlife or higher power. It's not a balanced scale though, sorry Theists... you're just way more annoying than atheists.

If somebody says that there is an invisible dragon living in their garage, but that any attempt to qualify this will be a failure.....is it "arrogant" to assume that there is no invisible dragon? I don't think so.
Because millions of people believe in the invisible dragon with no evidence and have for centuries due to tradition does not make it any more likely to be true either, and should not change your position.

Is it arrogant to not believe in Zeus? What about Mithra? Most people have no problem operating as an atheist in terms of the countless other gods that people have worshipped over the years; we just go one god further, and it's the exact same thing. :)