Bill Maher's Religulous

[AdamWathan]

yes it is, and no it's not.
i believe there is a higher power... i just don't believe any religion that i've ever heard of regarding what that higher power is. so i'm not copping out on religion, i'm outright denying it. i do not however deny the existence of "god", whatever that may be. i just don't claim to know what it is. what's so hard to grasp about that?

How can you call yourself agnostic if you believe in a higher power though? You don't KNOW whether there is a higher power or not, but you BELIEVE that there is one, so you are a theist of some sort...

This is what I mean about agnosticism being flawed as a "belief" system...

 

[abyssofdreams]

How can you call yourself agnostic if you believe in a higher power though? You don't KNOW whether there is a higher power or not, but you BELIEVE that there is one, so you are a theist of some sort...

This is what I mean about agnosticism being flawed as a "belief" system...

From Wikipedia:

Agnostic theism (also called religious agnosticism, spiritual agnosticism)—the view of those who do not claim to know existence of any deity, but still believe in such an existence.

 

[AdamWathan]

In my opinion, every Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc. are ALL agnostic theists by that definition. None of them know the existence of any deity and they all still believe it. That is what I'm getting at here...

 

[abyssofdreams]

No. Christians, Jews, Muslims etc. all believe in a/various certain/specific god/s whereas agnosticism simply does not exclude that there might be some sort of deity. Agnostics also deny any common religions known to mankind.

 

[James Murphy]

thank you abyss.... forbidden, you're just being argumentative for the sake of it now, lol .

 

[Metaltastic]

To quote MYSELF:

Furthermore, I think this is kind of deteriorating into a debate on semantics - regardless of what the terms "theist," "atheist," and "agnostic" mean to everybody, I've made my views clear, and I think everyone else who cares to has as well!

 

[AdamWathan]

thank you abyss.... forbidden, you're just being argumentative for the sake of it now, lol .

Pffft... That fence must be getting pretty uncomfortable by now!

At the end of the day, none of this stuff matters anyways. People think whatever they think, labelling it is meaningless.

 

[drew_drummer]

Labelling is certainly not meaningless. Labelling is what gives us our understanding of the world. Without labelling (ie: Language) then we would perhaps just be beasts who cant lick our own balls.

 

[SocialNumb]

Labelling is certainly not meaningless. Labelling is what gives us our understanding of the world. Without labelling (ie: Language) then we would perhaps just be beasts who cant lick our own balls.

Yeah! God fucked up there, we should be able to lick our own balls.

 

[AdamWathan]

Labelling is certainly not meaningless. Labelling is what gives us our understanding of the world. Without labelling (ie: Language) then we would perhaps just be beasts who cant lick our own balls.

... you are completely misinterpreting my point. All I'm saying is there is no benefit to forcing a label on someone's belief system and segregating people from one another because of religious bullshit.

Obviously we need language, I'm not a complete retard man.

 

[drew_drummer]

I just wanted to lament about not being able to lick my own balls.

 

[AdamWathan]

I just wanted to lament about not being able to lick my own balls.

 

[STINNETT]

i believe there is a higher power... i just don't believe any religion that i've ever heard of regarding what that higher power is. so i'm not copping out on religion, i'm outright denying it. i do not however deny the existence of "god", whatever that may be. i just don't claim to know what it is. what's so hard to grasp about that?

Then you are a theist.
An agnostic theist perhaps.....but a theist nonetheless. (possibly a deist...but not simply agnostic)

I admitted that I was an agnostic atheist. I think that is unavoidable if you're being honest about it. Our differences are only a matter of which direction we decide to go with our logic once we have acknowledged the fact that something is unknowable. I think it becomes unworthy of further consideration until evidence is provided, same as anything else. Some people disagree....which is fine - but I'm offended that someone would consider my point of view arrogant.

I understand all the justifications of agnosticism, I understand that some people think that when something is unknowable, it is impossible to adopt a stance either way. But nobody has yet satisfactorily illustrated why this is a necessary position to take concerning religion - but it's not necessary with any other unsubstantiated claim. The whole Bugs Bunny thing - I really do want somebody to logically argue against that.

 

[abyssofdreams]

Then you are a theist.
An agnostic theist perhaps.....but a theist nonetheless. (possibly a deist...but not simply agnostic)

Did you read my posts?

I admitted that I was an agnostic atheist. I think that is unavoidable if you're being honest about it. Our differences are only a matter of which direction we decide to go with our logic once we have acknowledged the fact that something is unknowable. I think it becomes unworthy of further consideration until evidence is provided, same as anything else. Some people disagree....which is fine - but I'm offended that someone would consider my point of view arrogant.

I understand all the justifications of agnosticism, I understand that some people think that when something is unknowable, it is impossible to adopt a stance either way. But nobody has yet satisfactorily illustrated why this is a necessary position to take concerning religion - but it's not necessary with any other unsubstantiated claim. The whole Bugs Bunny thing - I really do want somebody to logically argue against that.

Can't comment on the Bugs Bunny thing but I mainly agree with your viewpoint

Everybody happy now?

Free hugs until I get to the shower

 

[SocialNumb]

Fuck it! Unicorns are real! prove me wrong. They do exist! along with Fairy’s, Centaurs, Angels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Tetramorph, Dragons, Amphiptere, Amphisbaena, Basilisk, Chimera, Cockatrice, Hydra, Gorgon, Wyvern, Harpies, Ipotane, Lamia, Manticore, Moon-Woman, Satyr, Sphinx, Caladrius, Gansas, Griffin, Goose Tree, Hippogriff, Martlet, Opinicus, Pegasus, Peryton, Phoenix, Roc, Bonnacon, Bunyip, Cerberus, Gulon, Ibex, Lamb Tree, Mantygre, Mermecolion, Musimon, Salamander, Su Unicorn, Yale, Yppotryll, Devil Whale, Kraken, Nereid, Mermaid, Scylla, Siren, Sea Bishop, Sea Monk, Sea Horse, Sea Lion, Sea Serpent, Siren, and others...

Just because you haven’t seen one in person doesn’t mean there not real. Oh and God made them too. The Bible didn’t include much on these because they ran out of paper and God was tired from reciting Genesis. :zombie:

I iz teh smrt.

 

[James Murphy]

At the end of the day, none of this stuff matters anyways. People think whatever they think, labelling it is meaningless.

yes!, finally something we can agree on. thank you forbidden. i wholeheartedly agree.

 

[James Murphy]

Then you are a theist.... blah, blah blah

see my reply to Forbidden, above.

thank you and goodnight.

 

[STINNETT]

Fuck it! Unicorns are real! prove me wrong. They do exist! along with Fairy’s, Centaurs, Angels, Cherubim, Seraphim, Tetramorph, Dragons, Amphiptere, Amphisbaena, Basilisk, Chimera, Cockatrice, Hydra, Gorgon, Wyvern, Harpies, Ipotane, Lamia, Manticore, Moon-Woman, Satyr, Sphinx, Caladrius, Gansas, Griffin, Goose Tree, Hippogriff, Martlet, Opinicus, Pegasus, Peryton, Phoenix, Roc, Bonnacon, Bunyip, Cerberus, Gulon, Ibex, Lamb Tree, Mantygre, Mermecolion, Musimon, Salamander, Su Unicorn, Yale, Yppotryll, Devil Whale, Kraken, Nereid, Mermaid, Scylla, Siren, Sea Bishop, Sea Monk, Sea Horse, Sea Lion, Sea Serpent, Siren, and others...

Just because you haven’t seen one in person doesn’t mean there not real. Oh and God made them too. The Bible didn’t include much on these because they ran out of paper and God was tired from reciting Genesis. :zombie:

I iz teh smrt.

Damn, I guess some people have a whole bunch of fucking fences to sit on!

 

[STINNETT]

And like so many discussions before this one, the central issue has been more or less boiled down to its simplest elements, the layers of misunderstanding and redirected attentions have been largely dealt with and peeled away; we're left with a simple question - a simple exercise of human reasoning......

....and everybody has decided they're tired of talking about it.

A lot of people treat debates such as these as annoyances. I don't get that.
Debate is healthy, it tests our mental abilities and sharpens our perceptions of things. I look forward to an opportunity to question my own reasoning and decide if it still makes sense. If my mind gets changed in the process it's a victory for me, not a loss....
By the way, I'm not participating in this as a means of criticizing other people or their beliefs or to run pointless issues into the ground. Issues like these are important to me. The social perception of atheism is important to me. That my stance is built upon sound logic is important to me.

By the way, I've challenged several people to prove to me otherwise - and nobody has done it yet.

Still the case.

 

[SocialNumb]

This guy has some nerves.