Bloody Bass Guitar

[eʍʍy]

When I've recorded bass in the past I'd just let it fill out the bottom end.
That worked fine.

But recently I had a friend record bass and he uses a very grindy tone that has a lot more to it.

And what he plays is more interesting rather than just following the guitar. I like how it sounds and all that, but I can't really seem to get a proper blend of it with the electric guitars.

I want the track to be audible in the high frequencies, still fill out the low end, but also not take anything away from the electric guitars.

What I eventually tried was duplicating the bass track and leaving one pretty regular but with a boost in the lows while cutting the lows out in the other. So then I could just raise the second if I want the bassline to be audible in the higher frequencies while using the first track to fill out the low end.
But in some parts, I didn't want it as audible in the high frequencies so I'd automate the volume of the second track to dive down a bit when needed to.

Anyone have any other ideas or should I just experiment with the above?


Also, does anyone have an example of a pretty standard good mix?
You see, I'm not too experienced with mixing on monitors so I really don't know what it should sound like.
Mostly, I'm concerned about low bass frequencies. I'm not sure how much is too much/ too little.
I checked some different groups. I guess it's different everywhere.
Like Metallica seems to not have too much bass on all their hits.

 

[Jaymz]

Try fiddling around with the 800hzish area of the bass, I find 400-1k needs some tweaking in order to stop the midrange of the bass conflicting with the guitars. Maybe even a bit of tape saturation to smoothen it out. Your on the right track with splitting the bass signal into both halfs, that works well.

Actually if you listen on Metallica' Black Album you'll hear the bass guitar is really quite loud indeed....but I think thats testament to getting the two sounds (bass & guitars) to "gel" perfectly.

Good luck!

 

[PhilR]

The mix on "metallica" is a very mid-heavy bass sound. Very very tight, sculpted to fit into the scoop of the guitars. Newstead himself once described it as being tailored to fill out the frequencies left by the guitars. But his ability to play incredibly tight, consistant basslines shoudn't be underestimated.

"Elementary" by The End is an example of an album with a very prominant, grindy bass. The guitars sound crap, but you can't win 'em all.

 

[eʍʍy]

thanks for the suggestions :]

 

[LeSedna]

Also, the tighter kickdrum, bass and guitar are played together, the better it will sound.

I like to think bass and guitar to be the same instrument, it's what they actually are in essence, the way they are used is just a matter of artistic choice. So you have to have them blend by matching their characteristic. About grindy bass tones, you basically are on the good track, with the high clingy track you can experiment with any distortion, ampsim, pedal, until one blends well. Even the guitarist's amp.

Automation is nice too

 

[Jormyn]

One thing you might find helpful would be to run the guitars and bass through a spectrum analyzer like Voxengo Span - put the guitars (or just one of them, assuming they're EQed the same) on the left, the bass on the right, and then set Span to use the L+R mode. It'll display them each as their own frequency spectrum, so you can identify spots where both the bass and guitars are present and then decide which has to go, and find areas that the where the guitars aren't doing much and then try boosting the bass in that region. You might end up with twenty narrow boosts and cuts, and the bass tone might not sound as good by itself, but it'll get along much better with the guitars.

 

[Nick M]

^ this is a good idea when you are trying to trouble shoot. It can help you very quickly in determining visually what you couldn't with your ears.

 

[schust]

One thing you might find helpful would be to run the guitars and bass through a spectrum analyzer like Voxengo Span - put the guitars (or just one of them, assuming they're EQed the same) on the left, the bass on the right, and then set Span to use the L+R mode. It'll display them each as their own frequency spectrum, so you can identify spots where both the bass and guitars are present and then decide which has to go, and find areas that the where the guitars aren't doing much and then try boosting the bass in that region. You might end up with twenty narrow boosts and cuts, and the bass tone might not sound as good by itself, but it'll get along much better with the guitars.

great idea! thanks for sharing it! no matter how long i do this, it always comes down to the obvious stuff that just seems to pass me by some days...

 

[eʍʍy]

Thanks everyone. I appreciate it!

I was getting pretty close to where I wanted the track to sound.. but I realized I hated how the guitars sounded.
They sounded better on my rough demo versions.
So I just re-tracked all of those. (I lost the DIs when my computer crashed)
They sound completely different so this might do a lot in changing how the mix sounds.

So I'll have to experiment more.

 

[Vinny]

The new Of Mice And Men tracks are a pretty good example of what you are talking about with that nasty gritty bass in some parts (in response to your mix reference question)

Another tip, which is one of my favs, is to move the bass a tiny bit to the left or right (depending on what effect you want) on some of the slower, chuggier parts. It really gives you a nice attack and really lets the bass cut through. You can try it one some faster stuff too, but it just doesn't sound right in my opinion. And I'm talking literally milliseconds ahead (or behind) the guitars, because if you go overboard it will just sound off-time. I know ALOT of people who use this trick on stuff like breakdowns and "chuggy" parts in the song who want the grittiness and attack to be a little more present.

 

[ahjteam]

I lost the DIs when my computer crashed

pro tip: use cmd/ctrl+s after every take

 

[Ermz]

If you want the bass grind to poke through, you have to have holes for it in the guitar sound. A great example of bass grind and guitars working in unison is Meshuggah's 'Destroy Erase Improve' mix. Without the bass the guitars sound really grainy, thin and hollow, but all together they form this wall.

The rest is just down to good low-end balancing, like any mix. The more dominant you want the bass there, the more the guitars need to be subdued in the lows, the 'larger' you want the guitars to seem, the more bass guitar you need to cut away down there.

I usually make it a point to have audible bass grit in my mixes, so if you needed any references on that end, just stream one of the songs on my site. Getting the guitar/bass/kick interaction just right is one of the hardest, on-going things, and the ideal blend varies from project to project.