Borderline Blackmetal & a few questions.

[Land Of Grey And Pink]

Once again, you guys are way off base. The only thing "prog" about damnation really, was that it was a new step for the band...a different direction...a "progression". The material itself doesnt resemble very many prog rock bands at all. Short songs, and or fairly simple structures, moderate technical ability, no prolonged solos, etc. It was a very musically "safe" album...wouldnt have been nearly as controversial if it wasnt from a "death metal" band. As for Opeth to return to their "roots", which mind you, the progressive rock influence is no less part of their roots than folk is, you just dont notice or care. Opeth always does something different, so dont expect a morningrise or orchid part 2. I imagine this new album will be very dark and abstract....and when Mikael says "black metal"...he doesnt mean overly distorted production with little melody and screeching vocals, etc....im sure he means in darkness and atmosphere primarily. So please people, think before you speak ok?

 

[Rose Immortal]

I don't know about "moderate technical ability". Personally, when I listen to Martin López' drumming on Damnation, I hear something that is technically very good, if not some of the best I've ever heard out of him. The subtle cymbal work especially got my attention--it just blows my mind to know that the same guy is capable of those pounding metal beats as well (how any human being can do that is beyond me!).

 

[Ermz]

Actually, if anything Orchid was bordering on early 90s Melodic Death metal, as opposed to Black. Listen to In Flames' 'Dreamscape' and then an Orchid song or two and you'll see the resemblence.

With 'prog', it's all about what the word means to you. If you associate it with the 70s Prog Rock bands like King Crimson and Camel, then you'll find that there isn't much 'prog' in Damnation at all. If by prog you assert an actual progression in the band's sound, well then I'd probably beg to differ, as they weren't exactly progressing in the traditional sense either.

Damnation to me is simply a collection of Opeth acoustic parts that would've been featured in a heavier album, minus the contextual heavy contrast, with more repetition and more studio effects and of course more focus on vocal arrangements.

With the upcoming album, I really doubt that it will sound 'black metal' in any traditional sense. That is, plug a Jackson Rhoads with EMG 81s into a 10 watt amplifier and throw the gain up to 10, bass to 0 and treble to 10 then try to make as much noise as possible (ah, good old Ulver). I think by black metal, Mikael means the atmosphere of the entire thing. I imagine something very downpouring and heavy in an epic sense. But, we're yet to see, aren't we.

 

[ethereallights]

Once again, you guys are way off base.......So please people, think before you speak ok?

"Prog" and "prog rock" are genres that mean somehting different to different people. To me, Opeth's 'Damnation' is Opeth's venture into psychadelia, so if you're not a member of the band, do not tell us what Opeth is trying to do without saying "it is my belief" before it. Maybe the atmosphere this album gives off is "prog" to some people, where as it might not be to others. I think over all, calling this album "simple" really does this album an unjustice.

It is my belief that none of us know what is next from Opeth, and all we have is our estimations, so good luck guessing. So please people, be free with your mind, and do not be contained to one definition.

 

[Land Of Grey And Pink]

Ethereal, i understand what youre saying...but at the same time, the people above were giving the word prog and folk a very injustice. It just really bothers me when people pass of damnation as "Oh, thats Opeths tribute to Prog like camel, blah blah blah"....i just have to put my foot down when it comes to such blatant ignorance. a fault of mine i guess, but whatever.

 

[polarity]

I think it means there will be constant blast beats as well as barely audible shrieking vocals and monotonous guitars.

Oh my, aren't you clever.

 

[Nico]

Land of Grey and Pink, have a bloody cry.

When I say prog, I mean that the sound of the album definitly points to a lot of 70's prog rock as an influence. Same thing with folk... I'm not saying 'they are playing prog rock' or anything, I'm saying their influences are a lot closer to bands like King Crimson and Pink Floyd than previously.

Listen to Black Rose Immortal, 9:42 to 11:53... obviously it's not straight out folk... but it's heavily folk influenced.

Now to the point I'm trying to make. In my oppinion, the folk influenced accoustic passages work better for the atmosphere of a song than a progressive rock influenced passage.

 

[Demilich]

Land of Grey and Pink, have a bloody cry.

When I say prog, I mean that the sound of the album definitly points to a lot of 70's prog rock as an influence. Same thing with folk... I'm not saying 'they are playing prog rock' or anything, I'm saying their influences are a lot closer to bands like King Crimson and Pink Floyd than previously.

Listen to Black Rose Immortal, 9:42 to 11:53... obviously it's not straight out folk... but it's heavily folk influenced.

Now to the point I'm trying to make. In my oppinion, the folk influenced accoustic passages work better for the atmosphere of a song than a progressive rock influenced passage.

Hopefully that clears things up for Mr. Grey and Pink. I for one didn't find it that hard to understand from the beginning.

So please people, think before you speak ok?

I don't want this to come off as mudslinging, but please try to relax and be more understanding of other people's opinions. You're free to voice your own, but you can do it without coming off as such an arrogant person. I get the impression through most your posts that you think you know far more than most of us about progressive music, and music in general.

 

[ViCyniC]

Do you think Mike will change his growl vocals into something more black metal'ish?

 

[jester00]

whats with the attitude land of grey and pink...

 

[Land Of Grey And Pink]

I dont really have an attitude at all...i guess the computer can make words come off more harsh than they are. Of course everyone was entitled to their opinions...and the only reason i might have gotten defensive in the first place was because i thought people were saying the prog influences werent as good as the folk ones...and i was just saying that whos to say that one passage is more folk or prog than another? Theres plenty of progressive folk bands. Or prog bands that include folk elements. Its just not as black and white or right and wrong as people were saying.

As for knowing more about prog than people...i probably do, but i dont use that as a weapon or as a way to be arrogant...i just often have a strong opinion on prog related issues since ive spent years and many many hours being quite passionate about the genre. Its the genre i respect and know the most about. Sorry if i came off as an asshole about it, but its hard to help if theres a topic i feel strongly about. Ill try not to take things so seriously in the future

 

[foulwing]

Once again, you guys are way off base. The only thing "prog" about damnation really, was that it was a new step for the band...a different direction...a "progression". The material itself doesnt resemble very many prog rock bands at all. Short songs, and or fairly simple structures, moderate technical ability, no prolonged solos, etc. It was a very musically "safe" album...wouldnt have been nearly as controversial if it wasnt from a "death metal" band. As for Opeth to return to their "roots", which mind you, the progressive rock influence is no less part of their roots than folk is, you just dont notice or care. Opeth always does something different, so dont expect a morningrise or orchid part 2. I imagine this new album will be very dark and abstract....and when Mikael says "black metal"...he doesnt mean overly distorted production with little melody and screeching vocals, etc....im sure he means in darkness and atmosphere primarily. So please people, think before you speak ok?

i concider damnation more of a neo-prog.. and folk progressive rock

 

[Land Of Grey And Pink]

Neo prog? whats modern about it? Very classic feel to it actually...but a contemporary album, of course.

 

[foulwing]

neo prog meaning.. less complex

when i think of neo prog.. i dont think of it as pop or modern.. jsut a less complex progreesive rock. and eventhough.. some may not call it progressive Metal.. there is still a very metal feel to it..

 

[Land Of Grey And Pink]

how does prog being new or old have anything to do with complexity? im confused.

 

[Nico]

and the only reason i might have gotten defensive in the first place was because i thought people were saying the prog influences werent as good as the folk ones...

I wasnt trying to say 'not as good' like an undisputable truth, I meant that folk works better with the music that Opeth make. Mainly in reference to the early albums though, because of the atmosphere and the 'foresty' feel.

 

[Land Of Grey And Pink]

i see. But those albums were nearly a decade ago...Opeth wont be making those albums again. Nor will they make blackwater park or still life again. So i wouldnt expect prog or folk in the sense that were used to. but i also wouldnt necessarily agree that the foresty feel of older opeth is better than the newer aproach Opeth took...i think thats just your preferance.

 

[Demilich]

I dont really have an attitude at all...i guess the computer can make words come off more harsh than they are. Of course everyone was entitled to their opinions...and the only reason i might have gotten defensive in the first place was because i thought people were saying the prog influences werent as good as the folk ones...and i was just saying that whos to say that one passage is more folk or prog than another? Theres plenty of progressive folk bands. Or prog bands that include folk elements. Its just not as black and white or right and wrong as people were saying.

As for knowing more about prog than people...i probably do, but i dont use that as a weapon or as a way to be arrogant...i just often have a strong opinion on prog related issues since ive spent years and many many hours being quite passionate about the genre. Its the genre i respect and know the most about. Sorry if i came off as an asshole about it, but its hard to help if theres a topic i feel strongly about. Ill try not to take things so seriously in the future

I don't know what to say except thank you for taking me seriously and not dismissing me as a hater or something like that. I see where you're coming from, I'll try not to take things so seriously too

 

[Korlich]

The death growls, and lack of clean vocals on Orchid are the only thing about Opeth that resembles Black Metal about Opeth IMO.

 

[Bleakest Harvest]

Neo-prog is fucking awful. Bands like Spock's Cock and such seem to have completely forgotten what the word 'progressive' means, they're just making cheesy AOR with conecpts. Awful stuff. Opeth would be more influenced by the classic prog bands of the 70s, as stated many times by Mikael, and Damnation echoes this in places. It has a true 'classic rock' feel more than a classic prog-rock feel, which i'm failry sure was deliberate. But please don't lump it in with neo-prog.