Borknagar - Origin? rofl...

[Hubster]

....

Well posted

The thing with Drudkh is this: deeper analysis of them reveals a very "unconventional" band in that their philosophical and lyrical subject is heavily concentrated on Ukrainian culture with hints of Nationalism (note, not National Socialism, but Nationalism), and this comes through with their music: according to someone I know who is well schooled, Drudkh use non Western scales for just about all their music, it is completely inspired by eastern European folk and perhaps even gypsy music (listen to "Sunwheel" from Autumn Aurora for a clear example of non Western Scales).

To my knowledge, (apart from Enslaved) Drudkh are one of the first bands to take such a heavily ethnic approach (along with Negura Bunget), and this correlates to something I spoke about in another forum - that bands like these are using Black Metal as a vehicle for ethnic expression. More bands like this are popping up, and interestingly, not from Scandinavian countries, but more so Eastern Europe, Central Asia and even the Middle East/Asia!

It is no surprise then that we have 100% folk music (Drudkh have done this before SOGAS, back on The Swan Road, the last track uses an ethnic instrument and is completely sung in an old Ukrainian dialect).

Is this kind of acoustic music black metal? Well, no, not really. However, for philosophical reasons, it is done on these albums partly for "Black Metal purposes". But I would say that the line between these older forms of ethnic music and this newer kind of ethnic black metal is somewhat blurring.

 

[Demilich]

It is no surprise then that we have 100% folk music (Drudkh have done this before SOGAD, back on The Swan Road, the last track uses an ethnic instrument and is completely sung in an old Ukrainian dialect).

I thought this was easily the most memorable track on the album when it was released, and an awesome song besides. Any info on the instrument would be appreciated, that thing sounds cool as fuck!

 

[Sadguru]

Well posted

The thing with Drudkh is this: deeper analysis of them reveals a very "unconventional" band in that their philosophical and lyrical subject is heavily concentrated on Ukrainian culture with hints of Nationalism (note, not National Socialism, but Nationalism), and this comes through with their music: according to someone I know who is well schooled, Drudkh use non Western scales for just about all their music, it is completely inspired by eastern European folk and perhaps even gypsy music (listen to "Sunwheel" from Autumn Aurora for a clear example of non Western Scales).

To my knowledge, (apart from Enslaved) Drudkh are one of the first bands to take such a heavily ethnic approach (along with Negura Bunget), and this correlates to something I spoke about in another forum - that bands like these are using Black Metal as a vehicle for ethnic expression. More bands like this are popping up, and interestingly, not from Scandinavian countries, but more so Eastern Europe, Central Asia and even the Middle East/Asia!

It is no surprise then that we have 100% folk music (Drudkh have done this before SOGAD, back on The Swan Road, the last track uses an ethnic instrument and is completely sung in an old Ukrainian dialect).

Is this kind of acoustic music black metal? Well, no, not really. However, for philosophical reasons, it is done on these albums partly for "Black Metal purposes". But I would say that the line between these older forms of ethnic music and this newer kind of ethnic black metal is somewhat blurring.

Very cool post Hub!

 

[BloodSword]

Well posted

The thing with Drudkh is this: deeper analysis of them reveals a very "unconventional" band in that their philosophical and lyrical subject is heavily concentrated on Ukrainian culture with hints of Nationalism (note, not National Socialism, but Nationalism), and this comes through with their music: according to someone I know who is well schooled, Drudkh use non Western scales for just about all their music, it is completely inspired by eastern European folk and perhaps even gypsy music (listen to "Sunwheel" from Autumn Aurora for a clear example of non Western Scales).

To my knowledge, (apart from Enslaved) Drudkh are one of the first bands to take such a heavily ethnic approach (along with Negura Bunget), and this correlates to something I spoke about in another forum - that bands like these are using Black Metal as a vehicle for ethnic expression. More bands like this are popping up, and interestingly, not from Scandinavian countries, but more so Eastern Europe, Central Asia and even the Middle East/Asia!

It is no surprise then that we have 100% folk music (Drudkh have done this before SOGAS, back on The Swan Road, the last track uses an ethnic instrument and is completely sung in an old Ukrainian dialect).

Is this kind of acoustic music black metal? Well, no, not really. However, for philosophical reasons, it is done on these albums partly for "Black Metal purposes". But I would say that the line between these older forms of ethnic music and this newer kind of ethnic black metal is somewhat blurring.

Thank You for you response. These bands that you mention along with Drudkh, Enslaved and Negura Bunget, who coincedentally are 2 of my favorite bands working today, using BM as a way to express their Nationalism and/or Spiritualism is more than likely, the most accurate assessment of this question in my mind.

 

[Hubster]

^ Agreed.

Enslaved in some ways are the band who I think first started the idea for this approach, but perhaps not intentionally. And of course, their influence would have come from Bathory (Blood Fire Death, Hammerheart). However, I think that Enslaved took their Nordic expression beyond what many Scandinavian Black Metal bands have done, and they continue it today. I don't think it's justifiable as simply labelling their expression as "viking" like many people do. I think it goes far beyond that simple title.

Bands like Drudkh and Negura Bunget, and more recently, Darkestrah (from Kyrgyzstan) have expanded this approach in their own ways into something I feel that I feel is a new frontier for Black Metal.

Some may argue against this thought, perhaps even find it laudable, but consider how different each band is when you get under the surface: Drudkh with their instruments, langauge, art and scaling. Negura Bunget with their huge spiritual influence of their personal lives and culture into their music, and also using electronics to express metaphysics. Its not an accurate assessment to simply label these bands as "copycat Black Metal doing things which have been done before" (and I have seen some people say this).

For these kinds of reasons, I feel for the most part (as I've mentioned in this forum in the past) that Norsk/Scandinavian Black Metal for now has reached it's apex.

It's now the turn of other countries to push this music into newer frontiers, musically and ethnically. Personally, I can't wait for the day that a Middle Eastern Black Metal band appears. I would LOVE to hear the music of the Middle East influencing Black Metal in the way we've seen other cultures do it, using their own languages, their own instruments, their own cultural and spiritual legends.

It would be incredible.

EDIT: yeah I know, sounds like I take it all too seriously, but what can I say, I *love* music.

 

[BloodSword]

Once again, Hubster a very informed post. You just might be the only person that I agree with consistently on a BM basis. Wondering what your thoughts were on the band Melechesh? They are from Israel. With middle/eastern influences in their music , I think. I have'nt really heard them, but they have been described as a blackened-thrash band. I don't know.

 

[Lothlorien]

terrible album. tried to enjoy it, it didnt work.

 

[Hubster]

Once again, Hubster a very informed post. You just might be the only person that I agree with consistently on a BM basis. Wondering what your thoughts were on the band Melechesh? They are from Israel. With middle/eastern influences in their music , I think. I have'nt really heard them, but they have been described as a blackened-thrash band. I don't know.

I have a kind of odd approach to "Black-?" hybrids.

While I feel that Black Doom works best, blackened thrash (excluding latter period Immortal) doesn't work well for me (except seeing it live). I find it too accessible and this is a characteristic I don't look for in Black Metal.

I prefer my Black Metal for the most part to stay somewhat pure (excluding well used electronics or strong folk/ethnic influences).

Many people, even those who do like some easier-to-swallow Black Metal (e.g. Dissection or Behemoth comes to mind) cannot handle the "gurgling" of Varg Vikernes. For them it strays too far from being comprehensible, and thats cool each to their own.

The somewhat tossy "anti-metal" approach of "purer" Black Metal appeals to me for the most part as I find it expresses its philosophy more accurately via the music than other kinds of metal do. Purity of expression is what I seek in all music I love, be it Black Metal, techno, Baroque or indie.

But it's this very aspect that I personally look for in Black Metal, even if its subtle. Along with Weakling, Hekel is another example, with even more extreme glass-swallowing, throat-tearing styled vocals, supported by a Burzumic midpaced core. To me, it screams "expressive purity".

I have not heard Melechesh though, I may well have to take a look into them. An Israeli touch could be interesting.

 

[BRI]

^ Tell me why you disagree then?

I've heard plenty of black metal bands attempt acoustic albums (I'm guessing you were refering to this style of acoustic in your post) and they were all easier to digest than an angel delight.

 

[Hubster]

But is "easier to digest" necessarily a sign of better music?

 

[sunofalightbulb]

in my honest opinion, both this album and the acoustic Drudkh albums are fantastic releases, and are certainly opening the realm of black and folk metal to the thought of an "unplugged" album. it really opens the door for a new style of black metal music, which can incorporate a stunning vocal transition (for those bands vocally capable) or a stunning display of songcraft. i think the recent evolution of music has shown that you don't have to have vocals to really be a solid and fantastic band.

Origin has its moments of possible cheesiness because of the extra instruments, but the mood and tone is set through them. this album was meant to have that feel to it, instead of being a traditional release from the band. its certainly gotten us talking, so i think exciting the market has definately occured.

also, this can open the band up to a new set of fans. maybe there's someone out there that hates the deathy vocals delivered on some past albums from these bands. This album is theirs. Kind of like Opeth did with Damnation, these bands and albums show just how multi-dimentional these bands are.

love it or hate it yourselves, thats my opinion.

 

[Hubster]

Well said.

 

[BRI]

But is "easier to digest" necessarily a sign of better music?

No but I never came close to mentioning how good or bad something is. You said acoustic albums are never easy to digest, I disagreed

 

[illidurit]

more like BORE-igin bahahahahahahhahahaaha

 

[the_drip]

the OTT singing ruins it. Vintersorg is just too dramatic, I could only listen through this one time..have had no urge to come back to it. unplugged black metal should be instrumental imo.

 

[BloodSword]

in my honest opinion, both this album and the acoustic Drudkh albums are fantastic releases, and are certainly opening the realm of black and folk metal to the thought of an "unplugged" album. it really opens the door for a new style of black metal music, which can incorporate a stunning vocal transition (for those bands vocally capable) or a stunning display of songcraft. i think the recent evolution of music has shown that you don't have to have vocals to really be a solid and fantastic band.

Origin has its moments of possible cheesiness because of the extra instruments, but the mood and tone is set through them. this album was meant to have that feel to it, instead of being a traditional release from the band. its certainly gotten us talking, so i think exciting the market has definately occured.

also, this can open the band up to a new set of fans. maybe there's someone out there that hates the deathy vocals delivered on some past albums from these bands. This album is theirs. Kind of like Opeth did with Damnation, these bands and albums show just how multi-dimentional these bands are.

love it or hate it yourselves, thats my opinion.[/QUOTE Good thoughts. Uniontown, PA. HUH? I used to live in Washington, PA. Back in my drinkin' days we would go up to "OhioPyle" state park and hang out you know, drink, smoke, party. And listen to Good music. In the winter it was real cool to go up there and listen to Black Metal. Peace.