Buffer size when mixing

Aug 16, 2008
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I know when mixing it's recommended to raise the buffer size to about 512/1024 sample due to plugin overload. But when rendering a final mix, shouldn't it be at 256 or lowest as possible? Because won't that help with triggering? Specifically drumagog etc... I'm using Reaper and I noticed that when I'm rendering a mix with buffer size @ 1024, the meters seem really jaggy and laggy, but when I render at 256 samples it's really smooth. I'm just asking because I searched and have no idea if it affects anything at the time of bouncing... I don't believe I hear any difference as well anyway..
 
easiest way to see is to do a test. Render a mix at the lowest rate, then straight away reset the buffer to the longest time and bring the 2 into a project and A/B them.

Personally I wouldn't think it makes a difference, it's not playing back in Reaper while rendering, it takes as long as it needs to to render the file
 
I don't think it makes a difference. I mix at 4096 in Cubase to squeeze every last bit of juice out of my computer. I have not noticed a difference while mixing down at a lower latency.
 
I was not asking this because of lack of computer horsepower or anything. It was just a doubt I had in my mind for some time... My PC handles really well, so I'm not experiencing problems, rather just doubtful if it had any "real" impact in sound quality or plugin reaction, mainly midi, triggering, etc.. but since there is ADC in reaper then shouldn't make any difference
 
the human ear can detect about 9 or 10 milliseconds of latency. anything beyond that is pretty negligible, so as long as you don't notice it not lining up properly you should be ok, unles you're trying to do something really specific like key input by a few milliseconds and it's making your processes misfire. the meter lag could be fixed by reallocating buffer usage to your graphics card if you have a good one, like one designed for gaming
 
I would't worry about the meters as much when your bouncing. I would listen to the bounce after conversion for any problems. Although I haven't had an issue with this in the past.

Not to highjack this thread but I'm having a huge issue with cpu memory spiking in PT 7.4. I'm editing tom tracks with drumagog on all three and the gauge will randomly start to increase until I playback. As soon as a tom is triggered in jumps back down. Sometimes the system will freeze and saving seems to lag the whole system. It's very odd and messing up my workflow. I just added 2 more gbs of ram (even though xp 32 bit can only see 3 total) and at first I thought my cpu was overheating since cpu temps were so high but I just correctly replaced my hsf with a zalman cnps9500. I'm still getting the problem but not as frequent. Any ideas?
 
mix at 1024 personally.
hangover from working on G4s and other old computers.
still render drumagog, mostly coz i dont trust it
 
the answer hopefully shouldn't shock anyone, but thankfully, buffer size is completely irrelevant at mix time.

a little thought experiment is what i'll demonstrate it with.

suppose buffer size did affect the mix. noticeably or not, as skeksis268 pointed out, phase would be adversely affected. anyone who has mic'd up a guitar cab, with more than 1 mic, knows that mic position affects the overall sound (more so than moving a single mic - moving one mic makes a HUGE difference, as you move them in and out of phase) through waveform cancellation and addition. if buffer size affected this, then you'd have a very noticeably different sound for every buffer size.

in reality, buffer size has no effect at all. since the advent of automatic delay compensation, it's all sample accurate. a mix down at 256 samples is sample for sample identical to any other setting (given everything else is exactly the same).

as for the OP's questions, relating triggering, again, cubase (and most other VST hosts with auto delay compensation) will compensate for the delay of any plugin. even if the plugin runs at a delay larger than the buffer size (for example the SIR impulse loader plugin - runs a fixed delay of several thousand samples), it will compensate for it. so, triggering will always be sample accurate, and what you hear in the live play, is what you'll hear in the mix down. (imagine if it didn't!)

the buffer which you can control the size of, is the final stage that a sample goes, before it is played through the speakers, ie, it's already "mixed down", in a sense. i don't know the internal workings of cubase, but i wouldn't be suprised if the mix-down entirely bypasses the buffer.
 
what is this auto delay compensation you speak of ;)....
i'm waiting digidesign you fuckers... you know i haven't got money for HD yet.
 
oh yes, well, gaytools can go die in a fire.

although, choosing between gaytools and gaybase is the classic "douche or turd sandwich" paradox. one day, someone will make a good daw, that will be reasonably priced, stable, skinnable, and multi platform. oh, wait.

actually, reaper isn't great, yet - although it has an advantage over cubase and protools; "gay" doesn't fit into its name nicely. it has potential.
 
I just did a test, was mixing a song @ 256 samples, closed Reaper, changed to 1024 samples and voilá, drums were triggering delayed... wtf?! I'm using regular drumagog not the "Fixed latency" one... should I be using that?
 
hmm, that is bizarre. i would be quick to point the finger of blame at reaper.. haha. this is only due to my own personal problems with it, rather than any real reason :p

give the "fixed latency" drumagog a try.

when you you play it live with 1024 samples buffer size, is there that delay?

thanks,

EDIT: there isn't anything like constrain delay compensation, which may be activated, on reaper?