Latency Problem with Saffire Pro 14

[88mph]

First here's what I've got:

Intel Q6600 quad cpu
4 gigs ram
VIA Chipset firewire card
Win XP SP3

I had to sell my old firepod six months ago before leaving home. When I got back home, I've bought myself a Saffire Pro 14 for my project studio. It's more than enough since I've got my Countryman85 to track my DIs and a decent RODE mic to record vox and acoustic guitars and etc.

But, this piece of gear disappointed me a lot.
I have to set Firewire Driver Latency to MEDIUM at least. If I set it to SHORT, audio drops out or crackles when I'm playing guitar via gtr plugins. Then I have to set Asio buffer size to 256. Because all the good buffer sizes below 256 are used when fw driver latency was set to SHORT.

I don't notice that much difference while playing guitar but it just irritates me and gets harder to do double or quad tracking. I know I'm on sync while I'm playing but...it doesn't sound that tight while I was listening to them.

I hope you don't tell me that this gear is shit

 

[88mph]

I'd like to be rescued...anyday now.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155010/beaverton-oil

 

[AudioGeekZine]

I've got 2 ideas.
1- don't use the interface as the default for windows. This could help with conflicts.
2- Run a DPC latency test (Get it here) Basically if you run this and the number is high there's some conflict on the system that will interfere with audio. Often this is a wifi card.

Is that a laptop or desktop? VIA chipsets are not great. TI chips are the best for firewire cards which can be found in SIIG, ADS, La Cie, Belkin and Syba cards. A good firewire card can make all the difference.

 

[88mph]

Hey AudiGeeKZine, thanks a lot for your feedback.

I've got 2 ideas.
1- don't use the interface as the default for windows. This could help with conflicts.

I don't get that part. If I want to listen something from winamp or internet, do i have to listen them through the built in realtek? If so, I don't have that many speaker for both.

2- Run a DPC latency test (Get it here) Basically if you run this and the number is high there's some conflict on the system that will interfere with audio. Often this is a wifi card.

I did it and it says: This machine should be able to handle real-time streaming of audio and/or video without drop-outs.

Is that a laptop or desktop? VIA chipsets are not great. TI chips are the best for firewire cards which can be found in SIIG, ADS, La Cie, Belkin and Syba cards. A good firewire card can make all the difference.

That's a desktop PC. I just noticed that audio drop-outs occur on everything audio-related. mp3s, video files etc. It's strange cos it's probably beacuse of "Firewire Driver Latency". If I keep it short instead of medium, and set asio buffer size to 256, I get the same drop outs. But if I set fw driver latency to medium and set buffer size to 256, it's basically ok. But this time I'm getting 6.259ms input latency and 14.263ms output latency. Is that normal?

Here's a quick chart:

FW DRIVER LATENCY: SHORT ----> ASIO BUFFER SIZE: 128 ---> INPUT LATENCY:3.356 ---> OUTPUT LATENCY: 5.351
FW DRIVER LATENCY: SHORT ----> ASIO BUFFER SIZE: 128 ---> INPUT LATENCY:3.356 ---> OUTPUT LATENCY: 5.351
FW DRIVER LATENCY: SHORT ----> ASIO BUFFER SIZE: 256 ---> INPUT LATENCY:6.259 ---> OUTPUT LATENCY: 8.254
FW DRIVER LATENCY: MEDIUM ---> ASIO BUFFER SIZE: 256 ---> INPUT LATENCY:6.259 ---> OUTPUT LATENCY: 14.263

Drop-outs occur on Medium FW Driver Latency.

I also did a complete tuning (as seen on Focusrite website) for my pc to work with a firewire interface and none of those happened when I had my Firepod.

As for my Firewire card, Focusrite says on their manual that they support VIA chipset 1394. I don't want to spend money on another fw card before I understand what causes that problem.

Any ideas ? :/

 

[TheDriller]

Try systematically disabling all the non-essential hardware, like DVD drives, wifi cards, Bluetooth etc...
I had a similar problem when I got my saffire pro 40, turned out one of the DVD drives was causing the dropouts.
With that disabled I can go right down to the lowest buffer size with no problems.

 

[88mph]

Try systematically disabling all the non-essential hardware, like DVD drives, wifi cards, Bluetooth etc...
I had a similar problem when I got my saffire pro 40, turned out one of the DVD drives was causing the dropouts.
With that disabled I can go right down to the lowest buffer size with no problems.

I've got no wi-fi, bluetooth, floppy, card-reader devices. Just a dvd-rom. I'm connecting internet via ethernet cable. I did everything you said. Here's my device manager:

 

[TheDriller]

If your still getting dropouts with everything disabled then I'd guess the next step is a TI FireWire card.
Also, make sure you have no extra shit running in the background, torrent apps, antivirus, or any of those kind of things.

 

[88mph]

If your still getting dropouts with everything disabled then I'd guess the next step is a TI FireWire card.
Also, make sure you have no extra shit running in the background, torrent apps, antivirus, or any of those kind of things.

What about this? This device isn't using its own power supply. Even if I remove the power supply, it keeps working. I don't want it to use firewire for power. Is it possible to disable it?

 

[AudioGeekZine]

I don't get that part. If I want to listen something from winamp or internet, do i have to listen them through the built in realtek? If so, I don't have that many speaker for both.

Any ideas ? :/

You can run a cable from the line out of the realtek to an input of your saffire. My realtek has spdif out so I use that as my system sounds device and use my interface for DAWs only.

My system is similar to yours, Q6600, 4GB RAM, but I'm on Win7 now. I had a hell of a time getting stable firewire devices with a VIA card and XP. A SIIG TI chip card made all the difference.
Win 7 seems to be better overall, I'm now using a Syba FW800 card with TI chip. I had literally no troubleshooting or optimizing to do once installing Win 7 64 bit.

So A) it's time to move up to Win7 B) Get a good firewire card.
Via chip cards retail for $10. Good ones with TI chips are $35-80.

 

[88mph]

I was gonna write the same. I plugged my firewire card and saffire to my flatmate's desktop pc which is on win7. It worked. Funny...I'm switching to win7 this week. It's about time.

 

[AdamG94]

What about this? This device isn't using its own power supply. Even if I remove the power supply, it keeps working. I don't want it to use firewire for power. Is it possible to disable it?

You have to plug the power supply into the interface before you turn on your PC and then it'll be using mains supply (make sure the power LED is on before booting up).

 

[lelahel]

what is the minimal tolerated latency by human ear? (input and output?)

 

[88mph]

Upgraded to Win7 64bits. No problems anymore. If any of you guys are dealing with a similar issue, it's probably a driver problem. Still using my via chipset fw card. No need to buy TI FWs.

 

[AudioGeekZine]

what is the minimal tolerated latency by human ear? (input and output?)

that's up to you to decide.
For me 128 samples @44.1 is barely tolerable to play guitar to, sounds phasey on voice. 64 samples is nearly inaudible but not as good as direct, though a hell of a lot more convenient than direct monitoring.