can't figure out this drumagog problem

[Massili]

Hi
I can't understand how, why and what it's hapenning! Tried alot of things and coudnt figure out the cause of this
it's weird
I triggered a snare track 100% with drumagog and used a gog file.

Sometimes i get a double trigger hit in a snare hit but the weird thing is that doesnt happen 2-3 times in a row at that SAME EXACT point (sometimes yes, but it also happens to occurs in others points that didnt had happened before in the same audiction session)
sometimes even if i dont detect these double trigger hits when listening to the mix in cubase i get that thing on the exported mp3 file ... then when i go back to cubase to check that exact point where the "false trigger" happened, the problem doesnt occurs, and like i said before, sometimes it occurs but sometimes dont
when i set drumagog to visual i only see one snare hit been triggered but there are, the 2 white dots over the top of that hit, causing "that double trigger hits thing", i really can't understand what's happening

i dont know if i could explained right if dont let me know and i will try to do my best! I wrote and re-wrote this text 9 times, !

 

[Horhe]

I have the exact same problem with Drumagog and Sonar. Sometimes Nexus does that too, like first time an arpeggiator works but second time when listening it only plays a chord...

 

[Psych05]

This is normal behaviour. There seems to be some amount of randomness in drumagog's triggering.

However, by playing around with the sensitivity and especially resolution (sets the time that needs to pass before a new hit can be triggered) you absolutely should be able to solve this.

 

[derfbonker]

try putting a transient designer in front. Also, mess with the resolution and sensitivity. set them both to as high a value as possible, while still catching every hit. You may need to do some automation.

 

[Erlend_]

Or just output and print the trigger data to midi and edit away any false hits.

 

[fatalforce]

Have you tried changing the sample sensitivity in the last tab (i think it's advanced or options)?
It adds alot of latency but it makes the triggering more accurate.

 

[flhctroll]

I add a hi cut and lo cut before drumagog so all that is left is like 800- 2k or somethin. Makes it very contained. This helps a bit bit. I also do just a session for triggering drums then export the files to a new session then mix and edit out any bad random hits. Hope this helps.

 

[Morgan C]

I have a pretty similar problem. I think people are getting confused that there's something in the audio track triggering Drumagog - this is not the case. I'll have a gate on the track, and where there is complete silence, Drumagog will trigger. Then if I go back and play that bit again, it might trigger or it might not. Or it does 2 hits where it should only do one.

 

[Bob Rocco]

Drumagogs extreme level of dynamic sensitivity can also be its down fall on tracks with a lot of bleed or even room verb. Occasionally the slap back from a wall can appear as a peak on Drumagogs window.

My advice to people using drumagog is to first head over to the advanced tab as your first port of call. Set your triggering engine to 'ADVANCED' and slide the bar to to top end of 'HIGHER ACCURACY'. This should considerably reduce the flamming but often isn't enough to eradicate the problem.

Next go back to Drumagogs main page and un-tick 'AUTO ALIGN' which is made active when you select the Advanced triggering. I believe this setting is to be used when you are working with inaccurately cut up samples (imagine 24 hits of a snare that have a varying amount of silence at the beginning of each hit). The problem is with auto align, for what ever reason it doesn't get it right all the time and on well prepared sample libraries it just sounds a little weird, either marginally behind or ahead all the time, we're talking a few ms here but i personally don't believe there is an acceptable tolerance of random out of timeness that can attributed to well played drum groove. Especially when your bassist has tracked with great feel over this drum track.

Next check your input levels and sensitivity. You don't want your level hitting passed to the top of the visual triggering window as this will kill your dynamics. Aim for your snare or kick or even tom peaks to hit around the -2dB on the window. Sensitivity is also an important factor in the flam problem. If you set the sensitivity too deep on your spikes it will trigger a flam, but not all the time as yous guys say. Best way is to trigger close to the peak of the hit to ensure Drumagogs triggering engine only has a very brief pop of sound to work on.
This is where i hear people crying;"what about my snare fills! they aren't gonna trigger now the triggering level is too high!".
The only work around for this is to have a duplicate snare track with just the dynamic sections on like your fills and maybe a half rolled snare section like in the middle of Killers by Iron Maiden. Use the same technique to make sure you are triggering from peaks again to ensure no flamming.

If this isn't enough to solve your problem you could use the method manually cutting and fading all hits by hand so only the actual hits you are wanting to hear remain. If 100% replacing is your method for the track you can tighten things up a touch more by selecting all these newly cut hits and shortening them to really short blips. Your snare or kick track will sound nothing like drums by this point but if you are 100% replacing with some decent multi-sampled drum gogs you can achieve very controllable consistent drum sounds this way.
I'd never trust any gate to not get drums wrong, in-fact i never use auto gates when hand fading and gating (although time consuming) is as accurate and consistent and the amount of effort you put in.

Drumagog is possibly the best plug-in I own, i could work without it but working with poorly recorded drum sounds is always gonna hamper your final product.

One more thing with drumagog, when you have your snare or kick tracks triggering correctly bounce them to a wav file before doing your mix, there are two very good reasons for this.

1. Drumagog uses a dynamic yet random triggering engine, each time you play your snare track you can guarantee that your 5 or so hard hits wont play on the same peak as last time. If your samples in the same velocity group vary slightly in tone you will want to make sure that when mixing that throughout a verse or chorus, middle 8, outro, whatever you are mixing the same pattern of hits. Otherwise you may find yourself thinking: Hmmmmm, last time i played the chorus through i thought the snare wanted to be louder, now i want it lower. Give yourselves a chance and always think about consistency with whatever you do with random triggers.

2. Drumagog is relatively heavy on CPU power when set to advanced mode. Bouncing tracks and disabling plug-ins will save you in the long run if you want to trigger 5 toms a snare and a kick on a somewhat underpowered workstation.

See how you go with these little fixes.

 

[Styvo]

Bob,
Very thorough there with your feedback,nice post.I have it i will mostly attempt to mix the real drums when i can,naturally i replace whenever needed also.
This current project i am working on,i would dearly love to replace all the tom hits as there is way too much bleed,but for the life of me i can't get drumagog to trigger properly.
Just way too much f#@%ing around to settle for it.
But i appreciated the tips shared by you cheers.