chord help

[Vuashke]

ive been hearing this chord alot lately, and i think it has a very strange sound. its a dominant 7th with a b5 (formula = 1 3 b5 b7), essentially a dom7 with a dim 5th (i dont know the exact name for it so im just calling it a dom7b5). it has a very haunting, unresolved sort of sound that i quite like, its got the typical tritone sound but also the nice body of a dom 7th, and its pattern is very simple and moveable up and down the fret, as well as being very easy to switch up 1 string to a half dim 7th chord and up 2 frets to a dim 7 chord

my questions are: does anyone have any good scales to solo over this chord (dom7b5) ? i was thinking of just using the dominant, and i was considering using some of the minor modes like the locrian but im afraid that the minor third would make it sound sketchy. also, does anyone else have any experience with this chord? yea or nay?

thanks

 

[Vuashke]

bump

 

[dwoakee]

sounds interesting. i'm gonna try this at home tonight.

 

[dwoakee]

how does it sound when you add a 9 to the chord?

 

[Vuashke]

no idea, havent tried it

eh it kinda sounds more resolved and full, kinda ruins the effect for me

 

[Crepuscularia]

It looks to me like it could either be part of a whole tone scale, or maybe the VII of a major scale with a sharp two (whatever that is), or maybe the V of a scale with a flat two(again, whatever that is)? I guess you'll have to experiment a bit since there's no 'normal' scale I know of that contains these intervals (maybe one of the modes of harmonic/melodic minor???)

If you have for example C, E, Gflat, Bflat probably the easiest thing to try would be a whole tone scale on C. Maybe also d flat major with a sharp two or F major with a flat two? I guess it all depends on context and where you want to go next...

 

[soundave]

For altered dominant chords like your 7(b5), you can try this version of the melodic minor scale:

1 b2 #2 3 b5 #5 b7

 

[dwoakee]

I just tried your chord on my guitar and I also had the idea of a melodic minor scale: If your chord was based on C it would be made up of

C - E - F#(=Gb) - Bb,

right? This fits perfectly to an ascending melodic minor scale based on G:

G - A - Bb - C - D - E - F# - G.

I tried that one and I think it works.

 

[Vuashke]

wow nice ty, i hardly ever do anything outside of the diatonics

 

[dwoakee]

i experimented a little more and found out that a minor chord with a major seven based on the fifth of your dim7 chord matches its quirkiness. Try G-Bb-D-F# after your C-E-F#-Bb.

Besides, i found multiple ways to play your chord (well, not so surprising). How did you play it? The easiest way to play it seems to me (based on C again): 3rd fret of A, 4th of D, 5th of b, 6th of e. (Only when I played it like this i noticed that there's actually two tritones in this weird chord.)

 

[Vuashke]

i play an A dom7b5 on these frets: A on the 5th fret E string, D# on the 6th fret A string, G on the 5th fret D string and finally C# on the 6th fret G string. the reason i play it here is because if you shift that same pattern up one string you get a half diminished 7th, and shift it up another string itll be a diminished 7. i havent really used it much like that but itd come in handy

wow, your position seems alot harder, although i guess playing my position on the really tiny frets would be a pain too

try playing ur C dom7b5 in my position, with the root note in F# on the 2nd of the low e string

the chord comes in two keys. as an example, the C dom7b5 played with the root on the F# in my position is also a F# dom7b5 (big suprise ). they are always 6 semitones higher as well (C up to F#) which is a diminished fifth (tritone) <----ah, you already mentioned that

 

[Narek]

Well essentially you are playing quartal chords (chords based on 4ths not 3rds) and you can just go a tritone up each time and form a scale with that. Or you can use Octatonic or diminished scales.

I'd say use a half-whole diminished scale.

 

[Vuashke]

what makes you say that? there is a 3rd in the the chord, but not a 4th. can you elaborate

 

[Narek]

Yes there is a Maj 3rd between the D# and the G but this is why I said essentially, because tritones (A D#) (G and C#) form a quartal harmony theoretically. So you can just base what you are playing on a series of tritones.

This would be the way to think outside the realm of diatonic linearity. Which is something you were looking for yes?

 

[Vuashke]

yes

 

[Shapeless)))]

I learned this really cool chord today, it went something like this. (Sorry, i don't know all the terms so i'll show you it like this.)

0
0
0
2
2
0

Heh, I have never experienced such a powerful chord before.

 

[Carta's]

I had a similar experience, too: mine was even more complex. It was something like this:

0
1
2
2
0
x

Notice how this form a strong sensation of melacholy and sadness.

 

[Vuashke]

thats just an e minor chord shapeless, its an opeth alot and its a fairly common cadence

they are both minor

 

[Shapeless)))]

:Smug:

 

[Vuashke]

choice