chord help
- Thread starter Vuashke
- Start date
this is like the basics of chord theory
but dont worry, it is just theory. although back when it was developed it wasnt just arbitrary numbers and reasoning given to particular intervals, it was catered to peoples ears. of course now ideas of music has changed drastically so what was considered highly dissonant during the baroque period or what have you is just commonplace now. a while ago the 7th chord was considered to dissonant to use
but dont worry, it is just theory. although back when it was developed it wasnt just arbitrary numbers and reasoning given to particular intervals, it was catered to peoples ears. of course now ideas of music has changed drastically so what was considered highly dissonant during the baroque period or what have you is just commonplace now. a while ago the 7th chord was considered to dissonant to use
BefriendedUnit
They wear white for me
Yeah I guess. I just play bass and trombone. Stuff like "I just tried your chord on my guitar and I also had the idea of a melodic minor scale: If your chord was based on C it would be made up of C - E - F#(=Gb) - Bb" sounds intimidating.
Also now that Carta's has that signature, I read all his posts in my head with Steven Wilson's voice. "Notice how this form a strong sensation of melacholy and sadness..."
Also now that Carta's has that signature, I read all his posts in my head with Steven Wilson's voice. "Notice how this form a strong sensation of melacholy and sadness..."
maybe it sounds intimidating, but its pretty simple. a regular chord, or triad, is made up of three intervals. a major chord is the root (c), with a stacked major 3rd (4 semitones, an E) along with a minor third (3semitones, a G.) thats how all major chords are built. the formula for a major triad is thus, 1 3 5. youll notice that this is from the C major scale, which has the notes C D E F G A B. just pick the 1st, 3rd and 5th to form a triad in that key. this works in all keys, the D major scale is D E F# G A B C#, a d major chord is D F# A.
a seventh chord is just a triad with the last note of the scale tacked on, the 7th. for C major it would be the B, CEGB. the chord im talking about is a dominant chord, which has the formula 1 3 5 b7 (flatted 7) in C it would be C E G bB (or A#). also, it has a b5, which is just the G dropped to Gb.
a seventh chord is just a triad with the last note of the scale tacked on, the 7th. for C major it would be the B, CEGB. the chord im talking about is a dominant chord, which has the formula 1 3 5 b7 (flatted 7) in C it would be C E G bB (or A#). also, it has a b5, which is just the G dropped to Gb.
BefriendedUnit
They wear white for me
Alright. I understand that. I just never got used to people throwing around these terms, though, as if music = math.
Carta's
Carta's > Sex
Well, if you boil it down, music does equal math! How do we describe intervals? With numbers! How do we describe time signature and rhythm? With numbers! How do we define timbre? With fourier analysis of partials, i.e. with numbers!
Kind of morbid to think that your most beloved songs can be reduced to a series of numbers and formulas, isn't it?
Haha, I hate you, now I hear myself with Wilson's voice
Somehow I have a hard time imagining Steven Wilson shouting "I HAVE THE POWER" and brandishing a giant sword.
dwoakee
Suboptimization Expert
Music isn't math. The universe isn't math. You can describe music or the universe using math. But it isn't math. Math is about numbers, geometry, and other abstract concepts and about proving theorems concerning those things. Music is about sound. About the production of sound and the human perception of it. No connection.
.
Music as we know it would not exist without mathematics; without someone discovering that certain mathematical ratios of intervals sounded more pleasing to the ear than others, without someone dividing the octave into intervals equal to the twelfth root of two to get the equal tempered scale we all use, etc. etc. etc.
AND, if we describe our "perception" of sound as being what keeps it from being pure mathematics, I would argue that I could reduce your brain to a giant equation where your neurons are a series of billions of different sigmoid functions with different weights, and model your perception of different musical works by different nueral weights.
I understand where you're coming from when you say music isn't math but only is described by math, which is of course true (and I didn't mean to imply otherwise), but to say that there's no connection between music and the math by which it can be completely described is just not true.
the universe is maths. we depend on mathematics every day. if maths wasnt understood or didnt exist, i wouldnt be speaking to your right now, there would be no complex bridges, no electricity, no medical physics (MRI, ultrasound), no TV etc. maths is universe
CadenZ
Son of Crom
dwoakee
Suboptimization Expert
I meant that there is no connection between what music is about and what math is about. You may call it a connection between music and math that music can be described by math, but that's nothing special. Many things can be described by math.
A musician can create great music without knowing anything about math and a mathematician needn't know anything about music to prove theorems. I agree you can play punk by numbers, but you can't do math metal. :Smug:
Annihilat0r
TRINITY WATCH IN AMAZING!
Hi guys, while I was fucking around with the guitar I ran into some weird chord also, and I think it's very much like Vuashke's.
You play the chord as: 2-4-3-4 (from the E string to the G string). The notes are: F#, C#, F, B. I think this followed by a simple G minor then a F# minor sound interesting.
Is there a name for this chord? It looks like a dominant seventh C# chord without the G# (the chord has no fifth if the root is taken as C#) and an extra F#. I don't know if it has been used before but I know Mikael likes to use notes next to each other to create some kind of dissonant feeling, so this chord followed by more clear and harmonic minor chords could suit Opeth well, I think.
You play the chord as: 2-4-3-4 (from the E string to the G string). The notes are: F#, C#, F, B. I think this followed by a simple G minor then a F# minor sound interesting.
Is there a name for this chord? It looks like a dominant seventh C# chord without the G# (the chord has no fifth if the root is taken as C#) and an extra F#. I don't know if it has been used before but I know Mikael likes to use notes next to each other to create some kind of dissonant feeling, so this chord followed by more clear and harmonic minor chords could suit Opeth well, I think.
Annihilat0r
TRINITY WATCH IN AMAZING!
Fuck, how can you recognize the chord immediately? I mean, I obviously have no musical education and you probably have, but still. After you said it's a suspended (4) F# Maj7 I started from the ground up and put the notes
"F#... B... C#.... E#.... holy shit, he was right"
Studying and playing Opeth's songs really got me into the world of chords and it's such a vast world indeed and I want to move a bit forward with it, but it all seems impossible. I barely know the musical intervals and have to count every time to count "the perfect fifth of an A", for example.
"F#... B... C#.... E#.... holy shit, he was right"
Studying and playing Opeth's songs really got me into the world of chords and it's such a vast world indeed and I want to move a bit forward with it, but it all seems impossible. I barely know the musical intervals and have to count every time to count "the perfect fifth of an A", for example.
e# doesnt exist, i dont know what you mean by traditional music most american styles like jazz and blues dont say 'e#', same with 'b#'
if its in the key of F#, yes its a suspended chord with a seventh tacked on. not a bad sounding chord if you ask me. its a sus4 if the root is f#, (1 4 5 7), but its not a major nor a minor chord because it doesnt have a 3rd interval.
ive got some more larger chords for you guys to try if you like, the ones i like are: dominant 9th chords (1 3 5 b7 9), which can be played in A simply with 5-6-5-5-6 (fret numbers, from E to B. also you could include the A on the 5th fret high e string, but i dont). also, try my original chord with a b9 on it, in d# its very similar fingering to the dom9.try the m11 ( 1 b3 5 b7 9 11)
you can also try mixing up the intervals and leaving some out. alot of jazz guys omit the root in chords, but i prefer to omit the 5th because i dont like it. also, by omitting the root of a major 7th chord (used in jazz alot), it turns the chord into a minor triad that is 3 semitones higher (a c major 7th -> e minor triad). also, omitting the 5th allows for new voicings of higher chords like 11ths, 13ths that, because they have so many intervals, only have a few places they can be played.
mike uses alot of m3 diads, well so do most bands. also ive noticed alot of minor chords, suspended chords, and sometimes, like in godheads lament, he tends to pick a certain root (such as an A), whether on purpose or by accident, and then uses alot of the different types of chords with it, jumping from key to key. (i think i counted something like 6 or 7 different types of A chords in godheads lament - check out crep's threads, its very informative).
if you are going for a dissonant tone, try using chords with dissonant intervals like b2 (locrian scale is good for this), or with diminished fifth (b5 - try dim, dim7, half diminished 7 etc). minor chords, im often told, sound 'evil' and 'sad', so just add in b3 and b7 intervals. although personally each chord, whatever the connontations are, will sound evil, happy or cool depending on the individual. experiment with as many as possible, change them up a bit till you get ones you like, add passing tones, chromatics etc... and have fun!
if its in the key of F#, yes its a suspended chord with a seventh tacked on. not a bad sounding chord if you ask me. its a sus4 if the root is f#, (1 4 5 7), but its not a major nor a minor chord because it doesnt have a 3rd interval.
ive got some more larger chords for you guys to try if you like, the ones i like are: dominant 9th chords (1 3 5 b7 9), which can be played in A simply with 5-6-5-5-6 (fret numbers, from E to B. also you could include the A on the 5th fret high e string, but i dont). also, try my original chord with a b9 on it, in d# its very similar fingering to the dom9.try the m11 ( 1 b3 5 b7 9 11)
you can also try mixing up the intervals and leaving some out. alot of jazz guys omit the root in chords, but i prefer to omit the 5th because i dont like it. also, by omitting the root of a major 7th chord (used in jazz alot), it turns the chord into a minor triad that is 3 semitones higher (a c major 7th -> e minor triad). also, omitting the 5th allows for new voicings of higher chords like 11ths, 13ths that, because they have so many intervals, only have a few places they can be played.
mike uses alot of m3 diads, well so do most bands. also ive noticed alot of minor chords, suspended chords, and sometimes, like in godheads lament, he tends to pick a certain root (such as an A), whether on purpose or by accident, and then uses alot of the different types of chords with it, jumping from key to key. (i think i counted something like 6 or 7 different types of A chords in godheads lament - check out crep's threads, its very informative).
if you are going for a dissonant tone, try using chords with dissonant intervals like b2 (locrian scale is good for this), or with diminished fifth (b5 - try dim, dim7, half diminished 7 etc). minor chords, im often told, sound 'evil' and 'sad', so just add in b3 and b7 intervals. although personally each chord, whatever the connontations are, will sound evil, happy or cool depending on the individual. experiment with as many as possible, change them up a bit till you get ones you like, add passing tones, chromatics etc... and have fun!
dwoakee
Suboptimization Expert
i think you mixed something up there. Adom9 would be A - C# - E - G - H but what you suggest to play seems to be A - D# - G - C - F#.
but this guy said he has no knowledge of theory, dont you think its a better idea to teach him the common way? (no e#)
what the hell are you talking about? the symbol (one of) for major is maj, so a maj7 is obviously a major chord chord. a dominant is just a 7 (like g7), a suspended 7th i would write as 7sus4 (g7sus4).
oh i see what you are talking about, a major 7 interval. i still say its stupid to call it a maj7 chord though
what the hell are you talking about? the symbol (one of) for major is maj, so a maj7 is obviously a major chord chord. a dominant is just a 7 (like g7), a suspended 7th i would write as 7sus4 (g7sus4).
oh i see what you are talking about, a major 7 interval. i still say its stupid to call it a maj7 chord though
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