chord help

[dwoakee]

H doesnt exist? oh wait i remember hearing about europeans and different notes, hold on

right. i'm always taking care to call it B and Bb when i'm posting here instead of H and B like we do in Germany, but in this post i simply forgot.

sorry, F dominant9, i said A because it was the bass note. my mistake

ok, then i get it.

 

[Vuashke]

its ok, i remembered in the end. i knew i read it somewhere

 

[CadenZ]

what the hell are you talking about? the symbol (one of) for major is maj, so a maj7 is obviously a major chord chord.

Is C minor maj7 a major chord? Nope.

The chord in question is a F#maj7sus4. Sus means the third is suspended, and sus chords are never major or minor. So if you write name a chord sus4, it doesn't matter if it is a 7 or maj7, it is not major or minor. If it would have the major third, it wouldn't be a sus4 anymore, it would be an 11 chord; or m11 if it had the minor third.

 

[Vuashke]

Is C minor maj7 a major chord? Nope.

The chord in question is a F#maj7sus4. Sus means the third is suspended, and sus chords are never major or minor. So if you write name a chord sus4, it doesn't matter if it is a 7 or maj7, it is not major or minor. If it would have the major third, it wouldn't be a sus4 anymore, it would be an 11 chord; or m11 if it had the minor third.

thats different, thats a maj/minor chord, which has a flattened 3rd and a regular 7th. its a maj/min for that reason

go look up some fakesheets, all major chords are maj7, or maj9

 

[Annihilat0r]

But sustained chords don't have 3rd's. If you don't have 3rd's how are you going to name a chord major or minor?

 

[Vuashke]

thats exactly what im saying, any chord without a 3rd is neither minor or major

although a 7th can make it a partial major/min

 

[CadenZ]

thats exactly what im saying, any chord without a 3rd is neither minor or major

We all agree that if a chord doesn't have a third then it can't be a major or minor. BUT. If the chord is labelled "sus4maj7", that doesn't mean it is a major chord. Only a chord with a major seventh, which is NOT the same as being a major chord. You wrote earlier that you think it's stupid to call the chord in question a maj7 chord, but that's the way it is in music theory - whether you like it or not!

Cmaj7 = C E G B
Csus4maj7 = C F G B

or

F#maj7 = F# A# C# E#
F#sus4maj7 = F# B C# E#

In fact, the chord could be called C#7no5/F# as well. You wrote somewhere that you usually omit the fifth cause you don't like it - there you go

 

[Vuashke]

so shouldnt a c major 7 chord really be called a c major major 7th? since the triad is a c major, and adding a major 7th would make it a major major

 

[Annihilat0r]

so shouldnt a c major 7 chord really be called a c major major 7th? since the triad is a c major, and adding a major 7th would make it a major major

Yes, and formally they are called that way according to Wikipedia:

"Major Seventh (formally "major/major seventh", also maj7, M7, Δ7, &#9318: root, major third, perfect fifth, major seventh"

 

[Crepuscularia]

In that case you would just say Cmaj7 where the maj refers to the 7th interval and the C is 'understood' to be a major triad. What's interesting is that there's really no way to 'neatly' describe a minor triad with a major 7th; AFAIK you have to call it a 'minor-major7'. Fortunately, most of the time this chord doesn't come up too often.

But it sounds really cool IMO.

EDIT: I should have read through the thread first; didn't realize Leif had already mentioned this very chord!

 

[Annihilat0r]

You mean like a G A# D F#? It should be named G-minor-major7, right? Guitar Pro names it Gm7M, but I don't think it sounds really cool.

 

[Crepuscularia]

Gm7M? Pretty good way to notate it I guess.

Whether or not it sounds cool is of course dependent on taste, but I think in context it can sound cool. Like in the example Leif gave, or this one that I like:

E7b9(no 3rd) - D minor major 7 - Bm7b5/D

 

[Annihilat0r]

Wait wait, I need to dissect the notes, I'm not good at this:

E7b9 no3: E B D F
Dm7M: D F A C#
Bm7b5/D: B F A

Are those correct ?

 

[Crepuscularia]

Yeah that's it, except you forgot the D in the bass on the last chord. Voicing the chords as:

E B F B D
D F A C#
D F A B

Sounds nice and dark to me. Actually I was just screwing with this, and following these chords with an A minor and then an Asus2 creates a somewhat 'Opethy' progression I think. You need to play it in 6/8 time of course.

 

[Vuashke]

maybe there should be a new name for min/maj chords? a major with a b7 is called a dominant, maybe there should be a name for a b3 7?

that half dim chord sounds great, as do all half dims.

 

[Luann]

that chord is very used in jazz.
it's spelled 7 (b5), for example C7(b5)
Its a major triad with a b5 and a b7.
You can use lydian b7 over it, which for a C7(b5) would be G melodic minor, you can use whole tone scale too.

 

[Vuashke]

it sure is <---the half diminished chord

if you are referring to the 1 b3 b5 b7 chord, didnt check out the others

 

[Annihilat0r]

maybe there should be a new name for min/maj chords? a major with a b7 is called a dominant, maybe there should be a name for a b3 7?

that half dim chord sounds great, as do all half dims.

You're talking about a minor triad + a perfect 7th right? It's called a minor-major seventh and denoted like Am7M, for example. Check some posts above

 

[Vuashke]

thats what i mean, minor-major is a shitty name. maybe hybrid chord or something? read my posts more carefully next time

EDIT

btw im talking about the 1 b3 5 7, i dont know what you mean by perfect 7th, i didnt know such an interval existed

 

[Annihilat0r]

Oops, there's no perfect 7th, it's just a major 7th, yer right.