Clayman, double tracking and just phase..

[broken81]

Why is this called the Clayman mic technique? This was being done before they were born. Probably 1 out of every 3 cd's you have heard in your life does this on 1 or more instruments. You can use amp hiss or feed it pink or white noise

I just called it this cause there was a previous thread about this technique and it was used on the clayman cd. You can call it whatever you like but i know people on here refer to or know this as the clayman method.

now another question.....You guys sick of me yet

How do you go about using white noise or whatever you wanna call it to set just one mic??]

I personally just put mic in center of cone and test record and keep moving a little off center till i like it usually like about 1/2 inch tops of center. But if there is a white noise technique that could help me dial in faster, shoot I'm all for it.

 

[Zombietakeover]

Here is a cool article i just found on "The Recording Project"
its about phase while micing a cab with 2 mics
i would copy and paste but its pretty long
http://www.recordingproject.com/articles/article.php?article=25&page=7
i have yet to try this....but it sound like it would work.....what do you guys think?
But isn't phase as simple as zooming in on your events and looking which way the waves go...and making sure they go up and down the same way....am i understanding this right

I just called it this cause there was a previous thread about this technique and it was used on the clayman cd. You can call it whatever you like but i know people on here refer to or know this as the clayman method.

now another question.....You guys sick of me yet

How do you go about using white noise or whatever you wanna call it to set just one mic??]

I personally just put mic in center of cone and test record and keep moving a little off center till i like it usually like about 1/2 inch tops of center. But if there is a white noise technique that could help me dial in faster, shoot I'm all for it.

 

[broken81]

1 more question i didn't get from article.....

with no phase flipped are you looking for quietest spot when moving mic 2 around? and then what are you looking for if phase is flipped and your moving mic 2?

other than that i get everything.... Great article thanks for the link

 

[Zombietakeover]

from what i get from it ....and once again i havent tried it yet and im still very new to all this.....

but yeah with no phase flipped you want to find that spot were the cancel each other out(the quietest spot)and then invert the phase on mic 2...and boom you should be in business....check it out let me know if it works alright for you....im still waiting on a few things before i can give it a go.

 

[broken81]

yea im gonna be tracking guitars tomorow so i will give a wirl.

Another question.....

Is it cool to use a plugin for phase reverse or should i rewire a cable?? my preamp does not have it.

 

[Frayed ends of sanity]

LOL, oh man am I glad I'm done with phase issues. Two mics on their own same type speaker, up on the cloth, no phase difference. Different distances from speaker = out of phase. Same distance = in phase. No comb filtered yeck, no channel delay, no flipping phase, no lining up, no $500 phase boxes, got the sound in the phones, got the sound in the mix.

 

[broken81]

yea but dude when one mic is in front of cone it seems to make the other one your putting toward the rim of cone a bit different. At least thats what I'm getting i tried to make them exactly equal and i had phase bad! Made my tone sound quieter and thin.....

 

[gabriel g.]

Hi body,

Yesterday I recorded a RYKERS cover song for my band.

I used the first time the nordstroem thing. I used a e606 in front and sm57 in an 45° ...

I have no problems your are talking about. Only a fantastic sound

I´m using a onyx 1640 firewire to record.

It must be a problem with your cables, your mics, your mixer ....

Sorry to tell you.

Everything went fine for me.

 

[Pman]

yea but dude when one mic is in front of cone it seems to make the other one your putting toward the rim of cone a bit different. At least thats what I'm getting i tried to make them exactly equal and i had phase bad! Made my tone sound quieter and thin.....

dude if ur still having this problem
show us some clips of both guitar tracks seperate
one together phase reversed
and one together not phase reversed

 

[Sloan]

wtf.
if your having trouble with using two mics, then just go back to using just one.

 

[broken81]

Thats what i did!!

But im still gonna figure this thing out

 

[Jacob Hansen]

Is there a chance the plug-in you use for the phase reverse will make a slight delay? I mean, in ProTools, TDM plug-ins will cause a slight delay on 4-6 samples (a plug-in that has phase reverse and is not DSP heavy). If you only have that on 1 of the tracks, you'll be having even more problems, as the track with the plug-in is delayed some samples.

Try adding teh plug-in to both tracks, and flip the reverse on one of them - that might help.

 

[broken81]

cool good advice

Yea you ever use time delay adjuster plug or whatever that thing is in protools??

 

[axeman720]

i was just goin to write exactly what jacob wrote. Using another instance of the plugin eliminates a need for the time adjuster plugin. id try that, i cant imagine that phase should give you this much trouble at all. You will always have a little bit of phase with two mics, as they will never be perfectly in phase, but quite honestly when i blend more than one mic, i use the differences to my advantage, like an eq. They should only be slight though, and it should obvious which is correct.

 

[gabriel g.]

I didn´t use any plugin. I dont have any phase problems.
I doubled the guitars so I have 8 tracks at all.
No problems only rich sound

I think there is something wrong with your setting.


Sorry for you

 

[Frayed ends of sanity]

yea but dude when one mic is in front of cone it seems to make the other one your putting toward the rim of cone a bit different. At least thats what I'm getting i tried to make them exactly equal and i had phase bad! Made my tone sound quieter and thin.....

If raising one of the tracks is the culprit making your tone quieter and thin, then for sure you're out of phase. You just have to reverse phase on one of your tracks or inputs, or lower the offending track of your choice in the mix. Or, if you would rather align, I think you would have less trouble by just moving one of the tracks by a few samples to shift the phase, instead of adding plugins, but if it works whatever.

 

[broken81]

well i have not got back to test out yet again but when i flipped phase it was just real bass heavy but that was with both Mic's at unity gain. I think i had it right when i flipped phase i just needed to pull the off axis Mic down in volume or vise versa. But without phase flipped it was real thin and had no low end at all.

I should be aiming to get sound right were i don't need to flip a phase though right:Smug:

 

[Frayed ends of sanity]

Exactly how are you positioning the two mics? If they are the same distance from the speaker cabinet grillcloth/metalmesh, you will get perfect (close enough anyways) phase alignment. If you pull one mic back by even one centimeter, you will be out of phase.
Doesn't sound like you are using the Nordstrom technique, since you mention the rim and cap, maybe it's the cap sound that bothers you? Where you position the mics as far as near the cap or edge will determine bass/treble qualities.

 

[~BURNY~]

This might come in handy btw:
http://www.kvraudio.com/get/1767.html

 

[~BURNY~]

well i have not got back to test out yet again but when i flipped phase it was just real bass heavy but that was with both Mic's at unity gain. I think i had it right when i flipped phase i just needed to pull the off axis Mic down in volume or vise versa. But without phase flipped it was real thin and had no low end at all.

I should be aiming to get sound right were i don't need to flip a phase though right:Smug:

Check your cables.