clean, even sounding overheads

[s34nsm411]

Just wondering if joey or anybody could shed any light on how to achieve such clean overhead tracks? Each hit is very even in velocity and each cymbal has good separation with almost no room tone from the drums.

Meticulous sample replacing of the whole cymbal performance? Tons of drum punch ins? Some combination sampling and lots of takes?

 

[colonel kurtz]

first would be properly setting up the OH's to get a good stereo spread

then HPing the hell out of the tracks

joey has also mentioned in the past using a limiter on the OH's to smash the snare, not sure how often he does that of course, but it's in the bag of tricks

i know he also samples cymbals and augments/replaced hits here and there with with them as well

 

[Seth Munson]

Joey also uses Neumann km184 Overhead mics which are top of the line and have some of the clearest and most accurate sounds. (but when you get into the really high end stuff, most OH mics are)
He also uses tube condensers as room mics which can help with cymbals in that "cleaness" along with helping with nice drum room sounds.
some of his pres are also top of the line (API, RME, ect)

So once you have the nice gear it should really help with getting nice sounding overheads. shitty Shure knock-off mics going into an mbox can get the job done but surely wont sound as clean as the natural sound.

and if he is doing live drums and the drummer is awesome I dont know why he would try to smash the room sounds out of the OHs (I know he used to but with recent mixes it doesnt sound like that at all, example being the new The Color Morale CD)

So now that we have covered the nice gear that most of us cant afford (184s and the 3124+ alone are over 5k new, amirite?)
The next best typical answer would be, the years and years of practice, hard work, different mic placements in your room, trial & error, and training your ear over time to get the sound you have always desired.
and Im sure he blends in on the miss hits with the samples he pulled from the kit.

 

[JeffTD]

I will say that the source tracks I've heard are pretty damn even and clear; down to the drummer, cymbals, and positioning, really. If the cymbals don't sound balanced in the room, good luck getting them to be that way when tracking unless you comp the hell out of things.

Joey has said before on the Sneap forum that he does comp the OH's and runs an instance of L1 on them - not sure if this is still the case or not.


Also, never underestimate how much sample dropping of cymbal hits can help with the overall dynamics and balance of the cymbals!

He also uses tube condensers as room mics which can help with cymbals in that "cleaness" along with helping with nice drum room sounds.
some of his pres are also top of the line (API, RME, ect)

Not sure this is accurate - the songs I've edited so far have had a mono room mic which I assume to be an AT3035 or AT4040.

 

[s34nsm411]

interesting, for you guys doing cymbal sampling, (i assume we are talking about replacing bad hits in the performance, not just downbeat crashes and stuff) how do you deal with getting a consistent uninterrupted sound?

example: drummer is playing a blast beat with 4/4 crashes and you want to replace an off/weak cymbal hit... simply throwing in a sample you made of the cymbal wont have that underlying snare and kick going on which contributes to the overall sound

in this situation I will usually try to copy from a section that the drummer plays the exact same beat but I'm curious what other people are doing since this is not always possible

 

[tempe]

Just grab one from another part of the song, if the drummer is playing blast beats chances are you don't want to rest of the kit information in the overheads! Sample Augmenting cymbals works best for big downbeats, or for the china in breakdowns.

 

[s34nsm411]

thanks for the info guys! never thought about replacing the china but I now realize that I'm hearing that all the time

 

[shredder10]

Hiya!
I know i'm could be a bit off Topic here but man...

It's killing me to know how Joey adds those bad ass ultra wide
mega snares, ie Attack Attack! breakdowns or Emmure latest release.

I'm starting to think thery're added post mix?

 

[MarcusD777]

I'm starting to think Shredder10 is ruining this thread... Start a new thread called ULTRA WIDE MEGA SNARES!!! I don't let nobody get off topic in a Mr. Smalls created thread... NOBODY!!!

 

[Vinny]

OMG. Use the search!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[JeffTD]

interesting, for you guys doing cymbal sampling, (i assume we are talking about replacing bad hits in the performance, not just downbeat crashes and stuff) how do you deal with getting a consistent uninterrupted sound?

example: drummer is playing a blast beat with 4/4 crashes and you want to replace an off/weak cymbal hit... simply throwing in a sample you made of the cymbal wont have that underlying snare and kick going on which contributes to the overall sound

in this situation I will usually try to copy from a section that the drummer plays the exact same beat but I'm curious what other people are doing since this is not always possible

If it's actually off, just grab from another section. If it's weak, just drop the sample in tandem with the original hit, and it'll be fine - it's like adding a stronger hit of a snare alongside a super weak one, you're only going to hear one of them.

 

[Seth Munson]

Not sure this is accurate - the songs I've edited so far have had a mono room mic which I assume to be an AT3035 or AT4040.

you could be right, If anyone out of us besides Joey, Nick or the band themselves it would be you to know.

I was just going off of his site for the samples and studio videos.
But I am going to assuming Joey is just like any of us and wants to change it up and experiment with other things and techniques.

Edit: from my understanding the AT stuff is for the far panned cymbals like HH or Chinas
What I remember seeing is a Rode tube mic

 

[Vinny]

I remember seeing a mono Roke K2 aswell for the room sounds on his site, but that could just be for sampling.