Compare the rosters: a mathematical excercise

[Meanmistreator]

I have always welcomed critiques, but hearing "that lineup sucks" does bother me. The pressure of putting a roster together gets greater every year as more armchair quarterbacks come out of the woods. I do ignore those that are just here to be trolls. However, some really think I have jumped the shark. It's those people that I want to reach so they can deal with these announcements like you do. You said it best with "I know how these things work."

If I don't defend myself at times, then the power of the internet can work against you with the negative comments all over the net. I do have to consider the non-forum attendees in this capacity.

Besides, I have never been the quiet promoter that hides in the background. If everyone else can throw in their two cents, then so can I.

Glenn, I missed one show in six years, and I have bitched in recent years, as I'm an older fan and don't care for some of the newer stuff. But, this is without doubt the strongest line up for me. And I only like half the bands so far.

 

[Joe-×]

PP VIII is one unknown band away from being the strongest lineup ever, based mostly on the general lack of unknowns. And it's shaping up to my personal favorite as well.

It would be nice if US / worldwide album & concert ticket/merch sales were publicly available.

PPVIII = 25
???????? ?????????: ? (# of question marks suggests another vote for Solitude Aeturnus )
Sonata Arctica: 5
Primal Fear: 4 (I could be persuaded to go with a 5 here as well)
Pagan’s Mind: 3 (probably a slot high, but I love 'em)
Threshold: 4 (probably a slot low)
Redemption: 2 (I love 'em, but they're still a relative unknown)
Firewind: 2
Virgin Steele: 2
Communic: 2
Raintime: 1

PPVII = 23
Evergrey: 5
Jorn: 4
Epica: 2 (smartest #4 slot band ever)
Mercenary: 2
Freak Kitchen: 1
Thunderstone: 3
Savage Circus: 2
Vision Divine: 1 (maybe 2, but I don't think so)
Pyramaze: 1
Zero Hour: 2

PPVI = 24
Stratovarius: 5
Angra: 4
Conception: 3 (generation gap kept them more unknown than we old-timers might think)
Therion: 3
Orphaned Land: 2 (this is being overly generous)
Pink Cream 69: 2 (would put it at 3 if it were a melodic hard rock type event)
Symphorce: 2
Manticora: 1
Circus Maximus: 1
Stride: 1

PPV = 22
WMD: 1 (headliner level players, but still an unknown)
Edguy: 3 (no improvement in status)
Kamelot: 3 (would bump it up to 4 now)
Pain Of Salvation: 3 (3 is generous)
Tad Morose: 4
Brainstorm: 2
Wuthering Heights: 2
Dreamscape: 2
Adagio: 1
Into Eternity: 1

PPIV = 21
Nightwish: 4 (a five a year later, probably due to PPIV)
Rage: 3 (cult band at best)
Symphony X: 4
Evergrey: 3 (still on the edge, waiting to break out)
Circle 2 Circle: 1
Vanden Plas: 3 (probably a light 3, but I'm sticking with it)
Secret Sphere: 1
Mercenary: 1
Pagans Mind: 1
Redemption: 1

PPIII = 25
Blind Guardian: 5
Gamma Ray: 4
Angra: 3 (could have been a four if the vocalist transition happened sooner)
Pain Of Salvation: 2 (this may be argued, but I'm sticking with it)
Devin Townsend Band: 1
Edguy: 3
Threshold: 3
Silent Force: 2
Reading Zero: 1
Zero Hour: 1

PPII = 20 (no real headliners)
Symphony X: 3
Kamelot: 3
Evergrey: 2
Ark: 1 (I could be swayed to bump up to a two maybe)
Angel Dust: 2
Steel Prophet: 2
Spiral Architect: 2
Nightingale: 1
Balance Of Power: 2
Superior: 2

 

[Formerly known as Chris F5]

Oh god, I didn't go to that...

PPV

Into Eternity: 4
Adagio: 1
Dreamscape: 3
Wuthering Heights: 3
Brainstorm: 5
Tad Morose: 5
Pain of Salvation: 4
Kamelot: 5
Edguy: 3
Weapons of Mass Destruction aka Savatage: 5


That lineup was amazing
but PPV was an absolute home run,I was actually in the Arena for 8 full sets,saw half of Dreamscape(needed food),the only set I was "blah" about was Adagio

 

[Cheiron]

For those copying my VII, I missed Thunderstone. So you might want to add it.

 

[ReaLM]

2. Assign a point ranking of 1-5 to each band based on the level of interest in the band at the time they were announced. You should NOT assign the number based on your personal opinion of the band, be that good or bad. This number is to reflect how you perceived the band's status at the time of their announcement.

So, I'm a little confused... there are a lot of bands like Orphan Land, Thunderstone, POS, and Tad Morose (just to name a few) that I had never heard of before they were announced for PP. Would I give them a 1 or should I rate them based on what I think the level of interest in them was after they were announced?

Robin

 

[General Zod]

I'll compare this one to the gold standard:

Progpower III = 30

Zero Hour: 2
Reading Zero: 1
Silent Force: 2
Threshold: 2
Edguy:3
The Devin Townsend Band: 3
Pain of Salvation: 3
Angra: 4
Gamma Ray: 5
Blind Guardian: 5

Progpower III = 28 (one act remaining)

Raintime: 1
Communic: 3
Virgin Steele: 4
Firewind: 3
Redemption: 3
Threshold: 3
Pagan’s Mind: 3
Primal Fear: 4
Sonata Arctica: 4

To be fair, I think it's easier in today's Metal world for a band to reach "Level 3" (as defined by Glenn) than it was at the time of PPIII. However, to also be fair, I think this festival is part of that reason.

Zod

 

[Hajeka]

PPV

Into Eternity: 4
Adagio: 1
Dreamscape: 3
Wuthering Heights: 3
Brainstorm: 5
Tad Morose: 5
Pain of Salvation: 4
Kamelot: 5
Edguy: 3
Weapons of Mass Destruction aka Savatage: 5


That lineup was amazing
but PPV was an absolute home run,I was actually in the Arena for 8 full sets,saw half of Dreamscape(needed food),the only set I was "blah" about was Adagio

Yeah I know..
If I had to choose one to miss between the two, it would be that one, though.

 

[Rider of Theli]

*starts counting*

...

math is boring.

This ProgPower lineup is the best yet!

end of discussion. :Smug:

 

[SyXified]

Glenn - I think it is important to remember that part of what makes people so critical of this festival is simply the fact that we love it so much and hold it so near and dear to our hearts. I mean, in Europe huge prog/power type festivals occur on a regular basis. For us in the US, all we really have is ProgPower USA. So people naturally get inclined to start praying for their dream lineup to plop right into the slots.

This festival is one of the rare instances where 'I'm disappointed in the selections' and 'this will probably be the best concert of the year for me' can actually coincide! We end up holding it to such a high standard that we expect to really like over 50% of the bands, whereas at any other festival like Woodstock or Lollapalooza, you'd only hold it to a standard of liking 10% of the bands, and still call that a 'good lineup' for a fest.

I really can't think of any other annual festival that has people on the internet on forums all year round guessing and hoping and arguing over who should play, etc. And in a sense, it's really cool to have a fan base that wants to be SO interactive with the festival - whereas almost any other concert you attend in a given year you would approach with complete passivity. At this point, you don't just have fans of the individual bands that make up the fest, you have fans of the fest itself - including the people running it, and all us internet junkies chatting away with each other.

Good lineup, bad lineup, whatever - you're putting together somthing this tiny niche audience in the US so desperatly wants to see we're on the webpage the day after each fest is over checking for updates on the next one. Cheers!

 

[Magius]

Glenn - I think it is important to remember that part of what makes people so critical of this festival is simply the fact that we love it so much and hold it so near and dear to our hearts. I mean, in Europe huge prog/power type festivals occur on a regular basis. For us in the US, all we really have is ProgPower USA. So people naturally get inclined to start praying for their dream lineup to plop right into the slots.

This festival is one of the rare instances where 'I'm disappointed in the selections' and 'this will probably be the best concert of the year for me' can actually coincide! We end up holding it to such a high standard that we expect to really like over 50% of the bands, whereas at any other festival like Woodstock or Lollapalooza, you'd only hold it to a standard of liking 10% of the bands, and still call that a 'good lineup' for a fest.

I really can't think of any other annual festival that has people on the internet on forums all year round guessing and hoping and arguing over who should play, etc. And in a sense, it's really cool to have a fan base that wants to be SO interactive with the festival - whereas almost any other concert you attend in a given year you would approach with complete passivity. At this point, you don't just have fans of the individual bands that make up the fest, you have fans of the fest itself - including the people running it, and all us internet junkies chatting away with each other.

Good lineup, bad lineup, whatever - you're putting together somthing this tiny niche audience in the US so desperatly wants to see we're on the webpage the day after each fest is over checking for updates on the next one. Cheers!

Fine post.

 

[skeksis]

I'm there no matter what,I look foward to ProgPower week regardless of lineup

AGREED. I don't care if you're a veteran of all PP shows (kudos), or a newcomer. NO ONE who truly lives for metal should EVER flagrantly piss on any selection of this festival. It is like an absurd canabalism... why would you eat your own kind?

Point being, most bands booked this year are undeniably premiere or strong up-and-coming. Which I believe is the point of this exercise. Though it won't help those few that already don't see it, unfortunately.

Those forecasting bad ticket sales (bah), a lack of "prog," or even "I can't stand raintime's harsh vocals"... seriously, can we revoke your headbanging rights? If you are *that* much of an elitist or just pure-bred jackass, the validity of your opinion isn't even on the .99 value menu. Your interest in this genre as a whole... obviously weak to extremely limited. But, certainly, you are entitled to voice your stupidity in all it's glory. It is always interesting to read.

Still know that it's never too late to take off those Pampers and show some steel. Ten bands I had never heard of could be announced... and you know what, I would enjoy discovering their catalogs and attend all the same.

Some people just need to hear themselves bitch.

 

[metalprof]

math is boring.

Hey now.

 

[Greykiller]

I personally feel this is the strongest line up yet. Thank you Glenn!!!!!

+111111111

 

[TychoCelchu]

I'll go for this. I agree with SyXified's statement: a "bad" or "disappinted" ProgPower lineup is still going to be show of the year. I don't compare PP to ordinary shows. They exist in different worlds. Not sure how my perceptual numbers coexist with other peoples (probably people who know more about bands' status than I do)

PPVIII
SA 5
PM 2
TH 3
R 3
PF 3 (they toured the US in 2003; I saw the Michigan show)
FW 2
VS 3
RT 1
C 2
Total: 24 at 9 bands
Hypotheticals:
With Solitude Aeturnus (4): 28
With Jag Panzer (3): 27
With Symphony X (5): 29
With JO's Pain (3): 27
With 'Tage (5): 29
With Gamma Ray (4): 28
With Porcupine Tree (5): 29
With DTB (3): 27
With Trouble (*ahem*...hint hint?) (4): 28
With Cynic (4): 28
With OSI (4): 28
With Kamelot (4): 28
With Anathema (4) (hint hint?): 28
With Dark Tranquillity (obviously won't happen, but I would be one hell of a happy camper if it did) (4): 28

PPVII:
EG 5
JL 3
E 3
M 2
FK 2
T 1
SC 2
VD 2
ZH 2
(WF 1), I don't count this number in the tally:
Total: 22 (with Nevermore, it'd be a 24 as NM would get a 5 vs. JL's 3).

PPVI
S 5
A 4
C 2
T 3
OL 1
PC69 2?
S 2
M 2
CM 1
S 1
Total: 23

PPV:
'Tage 5
E 4
K 3
PoS 4
TM 2
BS 2
WH 1
DS 1
A 2
IE 3
Total: 25

PPIV
NW 5
R 2
SX 5
EG 3
CIIC 2
VP 3
SS 1
M 1
PM 2
R 2
Total: 26

PPIII
BG 5
GR 4
A 2
PoS 3
DTB 2
E 2
TH 2
SF 2
RZ 2
ZH 2
Total: 26
(this is IMO the best PP lineup ever as it contains what eventually have become my two favorite bands, PoS and DTB and an orgasmic supporting cast)

PPII
SX 4
K 2
EG 2
A 2
AD 3
SP 2
SA 2
N 2
BoP 1
S 1
Total: 21

 

[AngraRULES]

PPV

Into Eternity: 4
Adagio: 1
Dreamscape: 3
Wuthering Heights: 3
Brainstorm: 5
Tad Morose: 5
Pain of Salvation: 4
Kamelot: 5
Edguy: 3
Weapons of Mass Destruction aka Savatage: 5


That lineup was amazing
but PPV was an absolute home run,I was actually in the Arena for 8 full sets,saw half of Dreamscape(needed food),the only set I was "blah" about was Adagio

Did you really read Glenn's initial post as well as what to do and what not to do when it came to attributing numbers to bands? I'm just curious, based on some of your choices.

 

[Magius]

Did you really read Glenn's initial post as well as what to do and what not to do when it came to attributing numbers to bands? I'm just curious, based on some of your choices.

They do look closer to what I'd have rated them AFTER the show.

 

[Iced Ray]

I have never been to a progpower but I'd like to play anyway.


PPII = 22

Symphony X: 3
Kamelot: 5
Evergrey: 2
Ark: 1
Angel Dust: 2
Steel Prophet: 3
Spiral Architect: 1
Nightingale: 1
Balance Of Power: 3
Superior: 1

PPIII = 28

Blind Guardian: 5
Gamma Ray: 5
Angra: 5 (could have been a four if the vocalist transition happened sooner)
Pain Of Salvation: 1
Devin Townsend Band: 1
Edguy: 4
Threshold: 2
Silent Force: 3
Reading Zero: 1
Zero Hour: 1

PPIV = 26

Nightwish: 2
Rage: 3
Symphony X: 3
Evergrey: 2
Circle 2 Circle: 5
Vanden Plas: 3
Secret Sphere: 1
Mercenary: 1
Pagans Mind: 3
Redemption: 3

PPV = 27

WMD: 5
Edguy: 4
Kamelot: 5
Pain Of Salvation: 1
Tad Morose: 4
Brainstorm: 3
Wuthering Heights: 2
Dreamscape: 1
Adagio: 1
Into Eternity: 1

PPVI = 26

Stratovarius: 5
Angra: 5
Conception: 4
Therion: 2
Orphaned Land: 2
Pink Cream 69: 1
Symphorce: 1
Manticora: 4
Circus Maximus: 1
Stride: 1

PPVII = 21

Evergrey: 2
Jorn: 2
Epica: 2
Mercenary: 1
Freak Kitchen: 1
Thunderstone: 2
Savage Circus: 3
Vision Divine: 2
Pyramaze: 5
Zero Hour: 1

PPVIII = 24 (with still a slot remaining)

Sonata Arctica: 3
Primal Fear: 5
Pagan’s Mind: 3
Threshold: 2
Redemption: 3
Firewind: 3
Virgin Steele: 3
Communic: 1
Raintime: 1



The lowest score was last year's line up. For me, Pyramaze was the only band I would be very eager to see.

PPIII was the best line up for me but that was understandable since it had Angra, Gamma Ray, and BLIND GUARDIAN.

This year's line up is pretty damn good considering there is still a headlining slot still open. So if anything, a big improvement over last year.

 

[Iced Ray]

Oh god, I didn't go to that...

I know, me too.

3 of my fav bands in Angra, Gamma Ray, and Blind Guardian. I suck.

 

[AngraRULES]

They do look closer to what I'd have rated them AFTER the show.

I agree with you.

 

[biggs0072000]

....man....screw thrying to do this on no sleep. Math is indeed no fun.