composing drums

[bball_1523]

I am not a drummer and bearly know anything about drums, but I've always fooled around with fruityloops and Reason 2.5 with drum samples and stuff like that. The problem is that I do not know how to compose realistic drum rhythms and stuff.

Yes I've paid attention to songs and their drum structures, but a lot of times I cannot tell what is being played, whether it's a hi-hat or low tom, high tom, or whatever. Sometimes the sound recording doesn't let me hear the drums clearly. I don't wanna make super complicated drum rhythms, at least not yet, but I wanna know how I can learn to make simple to technical drum beats.

I am not here to try to emulate real drums, I just wanna make drum backing tracks for my guitar parts. I can care less how realistic they sound, I just want a rhythm in the background, so getting a real drummer is out of the question.

so where do I start? How can I study simple drums and compose the right rhythms with all the drum instruments? I don't wanna create anything that is impossible like, playing a 2 toms, a snare, and 2 cymbals at once lol. Just simple stuff for now.

 

[Liquid Shadow]

Generally in rock music, the timing of the snare hits are the most important (at least I think so). That establishes the time feel...whether it be half time, double time, whatever. Figure out the time feel that you want first. Do you want the snare on 2 and 4? Do you want it on the second 8th note of every beat? Do you want it just on 3? Figure that out, and then work everything else from there....

With the bass drum, there's a lot of things you can do, and there's no real guidelines to it...just whatever sounds good with the groove that you've got going. Then you've got the cymbals...usually you'll have either the hi hat or ride cymbal hitting on all beats (1 2 3 4), so just decide which one sounds better for what you're playing. Then as far as crash cymbals and whatnot...whatever sounds good. Usually it is best to use the crash at the start of a new section or phrase.

That's the basic stuff, which seems to be all you're asking for. There's a lot more to the thought process of writing a really good drum part, but that *should* be a good enough guideline to get you started for making basic backing beats like you want. Hopefully this helps a bit.

 

[bball_1523]

when writing music, should start with guitar parts or drums? I feel like a beat might help me write the guitar parts, but then it seems too closed in with a beat. How should I start?

 

[MajorRager]

I usually start with guitars, a melody, or whatever. I'll usually add drums in later, depending on the circumstances. The black album has a lot of great drum parts that are real simple and easy to figure out. Lars has a very basic, safe style. I'm sure you could pick it up.
How to tear apart a drumbeat:
1) the relationship between the snare and bass drum
2)the role of the cymbals, both for color (crashes, splashes, chinas) and connecting the roles of the snare and bass (a la high hats or ride cymbals)
3) fills are a different story

 

[v01c354nd51gn5]

9 times outa 10 u'll be hitting a crash or splash cymbal on the downbeat with either a bass drum or a snare @ the same time. if ur in 4/4, bass on 1 & 3. snare on 2 & 4. then hi-hat or ride on the 8th or quarter notes. u can really get pretty creative with drum beats once u've figured out how to make them. if something sounds good, it really doesnt matter whether its playable or not. thats the drummer's problem. just get a good drummer, thats all there is to that. with those fills, if ur lookin for those crazy portnoy/Rullo/me/every other drummer tom fills, its usually either 16ths, 16th triplets or 32nds (depending on the tempo) with 2 hits on the toms (usually the same one but u can always switch 'em up) and then 2 hits on the bass drum. for 16th triplets, u can do 4 on the toms and 2 on the bass drum, or the opposite. crashes with the cymbals usually come on beat 1, or any accent to compliment what other instruments are playing. snare doesnt always hafta be 2 & 4, theres a billion different rhythms out there, especially when u dont limit urself to 4/4 the entire time. hi-hat or rides can also be put on the off-beats for a cool sound, too. i dont mean to dictate anything here, so go crazy with it. thats just some stuff off the toppa my head. i dont know the program ur using for this, but extra percussion stuff is sometimes cool, too. NEED MORE COWBELL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[urinalcakemix]

if ur lookin for those crazy portnoy/Rullo/me/every other drummer tom fills, its usually either 16ths, 16th triplets or 32nds (depending on the tempo) with 2 hits on the toms (usually the same one but u can always switch 'em up) and then 2 hits on the bass drum.

And Why aren't EYE (I, Me, MEEEE, meh, UrinalCakeMiX) not on this list? Wait, I guess Im every other drummer =(

 

[bball_1523]

Right now, I plan on using Reason 2.5 to create drums. I'll probably just create the patterns first and worry about the actual sounds/dynamics later.

I may sound stupid for this, but I forgot what a downbeat is.

 

[Granskog]

wow, im totally amazed you ask this! ive allways had a very easy time composing the drums. thats the most fun stuff!! even though i can barely play anything myself, i know a lot about it and love to create crazy beats and fills.

anyway, the other guys summed it up pretty well.

 

[bball_1523]

wow, im totally amazed you ask this! ive allways had a very easy time composing the drums. thats the most fun stuff!! even though i can barely play anything myself, i know a lot about it and love to create crazy beats and fills.

anyway, the other guys summed it up pretty well.

you got any samples of your drum work?

 

[OfSinsAndShred]

Grab a book with rhythmic explanations and exercises. Or just ask a drummer in person so he can explain it and play it for you. Hope either of those helps.

 

[Granskog]

you got any samples of your drum work?

yeah i probably got some guitarpro files but why would you want to hear them?

 

[v01c354nd51gn5]

downbeat = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.
upbeat = the "and" counts inbetween each upbeat. yeah asking a real drummer with a drumset right infronta him/her might be a lil easier.

 

[bball_1523]

downbeat = 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, etc.
upbeat = the "and" counts inbetween each upbeat. yeah asking a real drummer with a drumset right infronta him/her might be a lil easier.

well I've already mentioned that I cannot get a real drummer so that's why I came here to see if anyone knew a few simple things about drums.

Anyways, I found a website that laid out some basics:

http://www.alandmoore.com/ramblings/TheoryOfDP.htm

It helped me to see where I could place beats and stuff and am looking forward to making simple 4/4 beats for now.

Now I wanna learn how I can apply some advanced techniques and stuff like drum rolls, dynamics, drum fills, etc.

Does anybody here use Reason 2.5?

 

[SevenString]

I use Reason, but only for synth/sampler stuff. All my drum work is hand-programmed midi sequencing, using the LM4 virtual drum module for Cubase.

But the same principals of drum construction should apply. Always concentrate on bass drum and snare for your first pass. Me, I never program the toms, cymbals, etc until I'm finished with the basic drum track.

Also, listen to examples of drumming that you want to emulate, or at least a song in the style/speed that you're doing. Focus on the drum parts that you're listening to until they're stuck in your head, and can serve as a mental template for what you're attempting on your own.

And I personally never program anything that a real person couldn't play.

Using a lot of these principals on my last project, I managed to do drums that were realistic enough that more than one person asked if they could borrow my drummer for session work.

good luck

 

[bball_1523]

I use Reason, but only for synth/sampler stuff. All my drum work is hand-programmed midi sequencing, using the LM4 virtual drum module for Cubase.

But the same principals of drum construction should apply. Always concentrate on bass drum and snare for your first pass. Me, I never program the toms, cymbals, etc until I'm finished with the basic drum track.

Also, listen to examples of drumming that you want to emulate, or at least a song in the style/speed that you're doing. Focus on the drum parts that you're listening to until they're stuck in your head, and can serve as a mental template for what you're attempting on your own.

And I personally never program anything that a real person couldn't play.

Using a lot of these principals on my last project, I managed to do drums that were realistic enough that more than one person asked if they could borrow my drummer for session work.

good luck

I really like reason, I wish I had a keyboard so I could connect it via midi and play some awesome synth patches.

For drums, do you guys know any good examples of fills? I listen to a lot of the complicated stuff you guys do and it has spoiled me because whenever I listen to simpler drums and make simple drums, I feel really bored with them.

 

[Katalepsy]

Quads are good fills...
Think of it this way: (Bass=B, S=Snare, High Tom=T1, Hi-Mid Tom=T2, Low-Mid Tom=T3, Low Tom=T4, High Floor Tom=T5, Low Floor Tom=T6)

B B S T1 B B T1 T2 B B T2 T3 B B T3 T4 B B T4 T5 B B T5 T6

If you have guitar pro...Put that kind of structure in like this:
||----------50------50-48------48-47-----47-45-||
||-------40--------------------------------------||
||-36-36------36-36------36-36-----36-36-------|| Etc etc....
Make sure you have the n-tuplet option on, and set it to 12

Just work with crap like that for starters, and just experiment with different patterns for fills...

EDIT: can someone help me get a pirated (Because I'm poor) version of Reason 2.5 to work? I run it and it says that there is a read error after I place the factory soundbank file in the reason 2.5 folder...Any help would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

[bball_1523]

how do you guys program those drum rolls, or whatever you call them? For example, Rullo does them at the end of "Dressed To Kill" at around 4:33.

 

[Kenneth R.]

rolls are hard to program, you'd have to have the program know its a roll (some do this) or program very very fast (128th or higher) notes to fake it.

the best tip i can give though is in the synthesis department. when writing programmed drums, you've got a few tools to make it sound a lot better: they are

1. Error
2. Diversity
3. Limitations
4. FX power

Error--- Real drums are played by humans, and we are notoriously imperfect. therefore, in your programmed drums, occasioanlly making mistakes (like missing a hit or hitting slightly ahead/behind the beat) is OK and actually sounds more realistic, just don't do it OFTEN or else it will sound like a newbie real drummer. Drummers also are imperfect in their velocity, that is no drum hit will be the same volume as the rest. Its impossible for a drummer to play at a consistent volume and level of impact, so vary that too if your program allows it.

Diversity--- Real drummers don't play the same boring beat the whole song, so you should program different parts for different parts of the song...and they don't even play these individual sections the same way every time. they add little changes throughout.

Limitations--- 2 arms, 2 legs. 4 Simultaneous actions or if your virtual drummer is a genius, maybe 5 or 6. But know the limits that can be pulled off, so that you sound more realistic when you write parts.

FX power--- One thing i commonly do is to copy my finished drum track out, and put it back in meshed with the original. so i've got 2 drum tracks now, one synthesized and one as a *.wav file. then, i use the program's FX tools to tweak the *.wav so that it has reverb, delay, whatever i need. drums are played in places. places are rooms of different shapes and sizes, and they change the sound. reverb is realistic, but too much sounds fake. i then leave both these tracks in the final mix so that i have one for clarity (the synthed one) and one for realism/style (the *.wav one) with appropriate volume levels on both for the best sound.

this is all assuming that composing realistic drums is a benefit. hope that helps.

 

[Katalepsy]

rolls are hard to program, you'd have to have the program know its a roll (some do this) or program very very fast (128th or higher) notes to fake it.

the best tip i can give though is in the synthesis department. when writing programmed drums, you've got a few tools to make it sound a lot better: they are

1. Error
2. Diversity
3. Limitations
4. FX power

Error--- Real drums are played by humans, and we are notoriously imperfect. therefore, in your programmed drums, occasioanlly making mistakes (like missing a hit or hitting slightly ahead/behind the beat) is OK and actually sounds more realistic, just don't do it OFTEN or else it will sound like a newbie real drummer. Drummers also are imperfect in their velocity, that is no drum hit will be the same volume as the rest. Its impossible for a drummer to play at a consistent volume and level of impact, so vary that too if your program allows it.

Diversity--- Real drummers don't play the same boring beat the whole song, so you should program different parts for different parts of the song...and they don't even play these individual sections the same way every time. they add little changes throughout.

Limitations--- 2 arms, 2 legs. 4 Simultaneous actions or if your virtual drummer is a genius, maybe 5 or 6. But know the limits that can be pulled off, so that you sound more realistic when you write parts.

FX power--- One thing i commonly do is to copy my finished drum track out, and put it back in meshed with the original. so i've got 2 drum tracks now, one synthesized and one as a *.wav file. then, i use the program's FX tools to tweak the *.wav so that it has reverb, delay, whatever i need. drums are played in places. places are rooms of different shapes and sizes, and they change the sound. reverb is realistic, but too much sounds fake. i then leave both these tracks in the final mix so that i have one for clarity (the synthed one) and one for realism/style (the *.wav one) with appropriate volume levels on both for the best sound.

this is all assuming that composing realistic drums is a benefit. hope that helps.

Good tips and all... Not necessary for personal use though. It's a pretty big waste of time perfecting every aspect of drum patterns to simulate human action if all you want is to make a backing track to play along with (which is why this thread was started originally).

"drums are played in places. places are rooms of different shapes and sizes, and they change the sound."

Don't forget thickness and composition of the walls, floor, and ceiling, other objects (possibly) in the room (chairs, tables, people, etc.), humidity, temperature, all of which affect the sound. For example, a smaller room, crowded with people, chairs, and tables (a bar, club, restaraunt, etc); the temperature and humidity will be higher due to excessive body heat, so the drums will sound more muffled, as opposed to a large concert hall with no crowd, which will cause the drums to reverberate quite a bit.

Like I said...It's a waste of time trying to perfect every aspect of the drum tracks to make them realistic because it's really not possible. BUT good tips nonetheless.

 

[Kenneth R.]

true enough, i wasn't stressing perfection, but a little realism can help the listener avoid asking, "hey is that a drum machine?"

the lengths that you pointed out would be further than i'd ever go to achieve some degree of realism.