converter time

I have the FF800 and got a good deal on some Lavry converters (Black) so I got them, and I noticed a significant difference. Not 'night and day' but it was especially apparent on the D/A side, monitoring definitely improved IMO.
 
+1

3 years ago I was working with a big A list producer and he did a "converter shootout". He had me setup a blind test between 192s/AD16x/Lavry Blue/Prism converters. Did variations of tracking/outputting/transferring. Long story short, he could never consistently pick which converter he liked better (or which was which).

So here's my advice and take it with a grain of salt....

Get the converter that has the right amount of I/O you need vs. the price. At the end of the day, adding 2db more top end to your snare track will have a greater effect on your final product, then whether you tracked it through an RME or an APOGEE. ESPECIALLY if you already have a great clock (which is a whole other can of worms I won't open), you won't be having any issues with intersample variations or any of that crazy shit.

As for personal preference, I like the AD16x/DA16x line for a simple reason that isn't advertised very well...

an AD16x has 16 ANALOG ins and 16 DIGITAL OUTS. So for example you buy an ad16x and an da16x, you get 16i/o analog AND 16 i/o DIGITAL all at the same time. Especially with the AES/ADAT/SPDIF inputs it gives you alot of options.

But they are expensive.

This is great advice - Swapping out my Digi 192s with Apogee AD-16x converters for some drum tracking recently, there wasn't much of a difference at all - had you done it without my knowledge I probably would never have noticed. I definitely agree that you should choose the converter that best suits your I/O and budget needs; any professional-quality converter will get it done sonically.
 
Just get the RME stuff. The quality is rock solid and the price tag is modest.

You are probably right man!!! I believe converters are quite hyped, of course there is a difference between the cheapest converters and the more expensive ones. But once you get a mid price converter (like the RME) i find it hard to justify the price difference to get a high end one. I still think so until im proven wrong. I tested a high end converter (2ch. D/A approx 1k) early this year and it was a small difference but it could also been placebo effect so i didnt buy it.

But as always the smartest way is to A/B them against each other and then decide.
 
The real high-class RME converters cost the same like the apogee stuff.

I think that a good clock makes a more significant difference in sound then the different converters (in the high price-range)

The big-ben is just awsome!!!!
 
As a matter of fact RME converters are a little cheaper than Apogees (at least here in Europe). However it's one or two hundred bucks so once you are in that league it doesn't really matter.

Joey: If I were you I'd try calling RME and ask if they can give you a discount in exchange for some promo. Being a successful American producer outside the ProTools/Apogee mainstream might be a good selling point for yourself. As a matter of fact I would have called Steinberg for the same reason a long time ago but they probably don't have anything to offer that you don't have already.
 
Have any of you guys read how Dan Lavry feels about clock units like the Big Ben?

yep. That's why I said I wouldn't open that can of worms. Lavry is pretty opinionated about alot of stuff, especially clocks and converters. I think anyone buying either should look into his white papers and editorials he's done.
 
Can you elaborate?? Or link to his articles??

Cheers

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/14324/22983/0/

The best way to clock a converter is with internal clock, using a good fundamental frequency crystal (third order types are more jittery), and locating the crystal properly (good ground to the AD ample hold and so on). You now have a low jitter clock inside the machine.

What happens when you get a stand alone “almost no jitter clock”? You look AT THE OUTPUT CONNECTOR of that “super clock box” and it generally can work as well as the internal crystal clock Now take a cable and hook it to the AD chassis. Now you have to go through some electronic circuit to receive the clock. At this point, you have accumulated a lot more jitter (I can list half a dozen causes).

Well, this is not the end of the road. The big one is the PLL circuit. Unlike the internal clock (fixed crystal case), you have a crystal that can be pulled up or down by some amount, we call it a VCXO (voltage controlled crystal oscillator). There is some circuitry in there that keeps comparing the incoming external clock rate to the VCXO, and makes the proper adjustment on an ongoing basis…
What is more steady? A mediocre internal crystal implementation is going to outdo even a good external clock implementation.

But there are times and reasons to use external clocks. For example, if one needs to sync many chassis…

It is true that the PLL does better when fed a less jittery clock, but that is just a tiny portion of the overall issue. As Bob stated, most of the burden is on the PLL. A Good PLL, inside the AD chassis should clean most of the jitter out.

Why do you get such different results with different sources? I am not there to probe. I would not start with comparing how much jitter each source provides. I would look into issues such as driving coaxial lines, and proper termination impedance. Make sure the clock lines have no “branches” – Driver to point A, than to point B, than to C all in series.

I am no fan of distribution amplifiers either. You can not beat:
Driver to point A (with a BNC T), than to point B (with BNC T)… at the end the BNC T is terminated with the proper line impedance (if the cable is 75Ohm, so is the termination). It is a cost effective solution that yields the best results.

BR
Dan Lavry

I don't know a lot about this, but from a common sense point of view it seems to me to be fairly impartial and logical.
 
Clocks and AD/DA conversation is a heavy read, and not that important to record bands in a studio (thats works properly)

if you guys are realy interested in that stuff, dont give to much into the gearslutz, wikipedia shit.....

read this book:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Principles-Digital-Audio-Ken-Pohlmann/dp/0071441565/ref=dp_ob_image_bk/176-1047540-1479201[/ame]

it includes everything you ever wanted or may not wanted to know :)

tough read....
 
What mostly concerns me is that I'll be chaining up multiple outboard converters to the one system, and I'm concerned about jitter. Wondering if it's best to just ditch the ADI-8, instead of buying another one, and just opt for an Aurora 16 VT instead, since it's 16 I/O in a single box.
 
I have a Lucid Gen X clock and I don't care what anyone says...there is a difference the image of the sound, especially the crispness of guitars i see the difference.
SANY0373-1.jpg
 
i can see the benefit of a clock if chaining 3 or more a/d/d/a's but otherwise i can't