Correlation between Religion and Athletes

And on the other hand, the "Golden Rules" of pretty much all belief systems ("don't kill people" etc) worldwide are now secular laws. It makes sense for a system to threaten potential criminals with punishment, whether it's hell or jail.
 
And on the other hand, the "Golden Rules" of pretty much all belief systems ("don't kill people" etc) worldwide are now secular laws. It makes sense for a system to threaten potential criminals with punishment, whether it's hell or jail.

Apparantly you can be an atheist but believe in some of the most insane parts of religion.
 
APPARENTLY. Not APPARANTLY.

And apparently you are so hell bent on being an antiestablishment hardass atheist that you cannot see any value in maintaining order in a society? Seems we have moved away from hellfire and damnation now.

Basically

a.) Religious people don't do bad things because it's condemned
b.) Secular people do so because they know it's illegal and possibly wrong

a+b=people behave themselves

How is that bad and why am I continuing to argue with you?
 
I feel guilty about being so mean in my last post. Apologies.

I understand all your disgust and rage with religion, especially since it sounds like you grew up in a religious household. I've been an atheist since the beginning of time so I never felt the anger and potential guilt involved with "outgrowing" a religion.
 
^ Have you read the bible?

APPARENTLY. Not APPARANTLY.

And apparently you are so hell bent on being an antiestablishment hardass atheist that you cannot see any value in maintaining order in a society? Seems we have moved away from hellfire and damnation now.

Basically

a.) Religious people don't do bad things because it's condemned
b.) Secular people do so because they know it's illegal and possibly wrong

a+b=people behave themselves

How is that bad and why am I continuing to argue with you?

You are dead wrong. Haven't we already established that religious people don't behave just because they are afraid of going to hell. You think priests who rape kids are behaving correctly? Not everything is so simple as you make it out to be. Humans cannot be controlled by threatening them with imaginary punishments.
 
Humans cannot be controlled by threatening them with real punishment, either. How many people here can honestly say they've never broken any laws ever?

I'm not trying to sanctify religious people, but you sound like you honestly believe that there is no such thing as a religious person who is good at heart.
 
Humans cannot be controlled by threatening them with real punishment, either. How many people here can honestly say they've never broken any laws ever?

I'm not trying to sanctify religious people, but you sound like you honestly believe that there is no such thing as a religious person who is good at heart.

My point stands. Many civilizations have thrived without the incentive of heaven and hell. Many great crimes have been committed by those who firmly hold these beliefs. The crusades were acted out by condescending christians who thought they would be rewarded in heaven...

I don't have rage and anger towards religion, only religious hypocrites. There is no reason to believe an atheist is less likely to live a decent "good" life. At the same time there are religious people who are "good at heart" as you put it, but that isn't due to their belief in heaven/hell.
 
My point stands. Many civilizations have thrived without the incentive of heaven and hell.

Since there are many civilizations to do so, could you please list a few? I am not aware of any athiest civilizations.

Many great crimes have been committed by those who firmly hold these beliefs. The crusades were acted out by condescending christians who thought they would be rewarded in heaven...

Do some actual homework on this and you will find they were led by greedy and otherwise pretty bad people (I include the leadership of the Catholic church in this, who needed to persuade the masses by claiming it was a "holy mission". Of course, they had no backing from scripture from this, just the word of the "holy leaders". To blaim it on religion is ridiculous.

I don't have rage and anger towards religion, only religious hypocrites. There is no reason to believe an atheist is less likely to live a decent "good" life. At the same time there are religious people who are "good at heart" as you put it, but that isn't due to their belief in heaven/hell.

While it may not be reasonable to assume an athiest won't live a "good life" (no one here could probably really agree on what that even is), to say that a devoutly religious person would live a "good" life regardless of his/her belief in some idealistic teachings is an unprovable opinion.
 
Good lord metal_wrath, you don't have a very good understanding of religion at all.

Same here.

Islam woman are subjugated while they believe that is the will of God in the Quran and if they don't shut up and do what they are told they will go to hell etc etc etc...

Sorry to contradict you but this is wrong. Bring me a Surah or Hadith with an explanation that wasn't taken from its context to support this. I think people like you who misunderstood religion, due to personal experiences, tend to give wrong images of any religion or believe system.
 
Sorry to contradict you but this is wrong. Bring me a Surah or Hadith with an explanation that wasn't taken from its context to support this. I think people like you who misunderstood religion, due to personal experiences, tend to give wrong images of any religion or believe system.
This is kind of a no true scotsman fallacy here. Whether or not it actually can be justified by the Koran, the subjugation of women is being justified by religion in Islamic countries. You can't dismiss that because some parts of Islam (thankfully) have modernized.
 
How many people here, for example, who consider themselves an atheist, grew up in a religious household? I know I did, and I know several others here have talked about their experiences regarding parental religious beliefs, such as Zephyrus.

Me too, I was raised Catholic, and even though I reject the idea of God based based on the fact that I believe there is not enough evidence, I still can't quite shake the feeling that there is a God, even to the point of feeling slightly guilty (what is it with Catholics and guilt?) about saying God can go fuck himself in that earlier post.

I suppose also part of me still wants to believe. It's a hell of a lot more comforting believing that there is some purpose in life and some justice in the afterlife than coming to the conclusion that life is inherently random and that most probably when we're dead that's the end of that with no second chances.

Back on topic, I don't care if athletes have faith, whatever works for them. What really does shit me though is when athletes (and anyone else really) do the whole prayer and point- to-the-sky-act and then go and act in a way that's completely contradictory to what their religion is supposed to be teaching. Practice what you preach for fricks' sake.

I never felt the anger and potential guilt involved with "outgrowing" a religion.

You are lucky. I am envious.

To blaim it on religion is ridiculous.

Somewhat agree. While religion wasn't the root cause, (moreso the human drive for power and greed, as you mentioned), religion certainly made it a lot easier to get the whole shebang rolling, and thus should be at least partially to blame. It's not religion itself that's evil, rather the way humans misappropriate it.

Of course, they had no backing from scripture from this, just the word of the "holy leaders".

Disagree. There's passages in the bible that if taken literally can easily be used to justify violence against people of other faiths. For example, Deuteronomy 13:8-17 Says to do the following to people who believe in other Gods:

"Do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again. If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt."
 
Somewhat agree. While religion wasn't the root cause, (moreso the human drive for power and greed, as you mentioned), religion certainly made it a lot easier to get the whole shebang rolling, and thus should be at least partially to blame. It's not religion itself that's evil, rather the way humans misappropriate it.

It's already been proven that people can easily be swayed by whatever the favorite "horse" of the leadership is. Religion just happens to be one of the many "horses" available, along with nationalism, racism, fear, indignation, etc.

Disagree. There's passages in the bible that if taken literally can easily be used to justify violence against people of other faiths. For example, Deuteronomy 13:8-17 Says to do the following to people who believe in other Gods:

"Do not yield to him or listen to him. Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. You must certainly put him to death. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone him to death, because he tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again. If you hear it said about one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you to live in that wicked men have arisen among you and have led the people of their town astray, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods you have not known), then you must inquire, probe and investigate it thoroughly. And if it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done among you, you must certainly put to the sword all who live in that town. Destroy it completely, both its people and its livestock. Gather all the plunder of the town into the middle of the public square and completely burn the town and all its plunder as a whole burnt offering to the LORD your God. It is to remain a ruin forever, never to be rebuilt."

Sure, it should be taken literally. In it's time and context. It was specific directives to Israel somewhere around 1300-1500 BC in reference to how to run their soon to exist kingdom. They were to go in and root out the cannibalistic, child sacrificing, pagan inhabitants, and were not to allow those practices to take root in their own ways.

Whether or not you agree with the totality of the above passage, it's pretty obvious it can't apply beyond the situation which the passage itself lays out + the context of Deuteronomy.
 
There have been many cultures throughout history which do not have believe in an equivalent to heaven/hell.

Sorry to contradict you but this is wrong. Bring me a Surah or Hadith with an explanation that wasn't taken from its context to support this. I think people like you who misunderstood religion, due to personal experiences, tend to give wrong images of any religion or believe system.

Woman are told to be obedient to their husbands, and husbands are allowed to discipline their wives, as well as marry multiple women. If the woman does not, they are made to believe they are going against Islam and they would face punishment in hell.

I don't misunderstand religion due to personal experiences.
 
Whether or not it actually can be justified by the Koran, the subjugation of women is being justified by religion in Islamic countries. You can't dismiss that because some parts of Islam (thankfully) have modernized.

Maybe you want to see the way you want it not as it actually is.
Religion is a tool that they use to justify their deeds, everyone interprets it the way they want by removing some parts of the verses when they quote them.
As i said, when it is interpreted it shouldn't go out of its context. Otherwise, it will be utter nonsense.
 
Maybe you want to see the way you want it not as it actually is.
Religion is a tool that they use to justify their deeds, everyone interprets it the way they want by removing some parts of the verses when they quote them.
As i said, when it is interpreted it shouldn't go out of its context. Otherwise, it will be utter nonsense.

If you believe the Koran is the word of God then you are a Muslim, correct?
 
I always found it pretty hypocritical that it's ok in "modern society" for men/women to fuck around, but to marry more than one person is this terrible crime.
 
Woman are told to be obedient to their husbands, and husbands are allowed to discipline their wives, as well as marry multiple women. If the woman does not, they are made to believe they are going against Islam and they would face punishment in hell.

I don't misunderstand religion due to personal experiences.

Not in the sense that they have free pass to ask their wives to do whatever the fuck they want. Husbands too have duties for their women. As I said, you misunderstood it ;)