Dakryn's Batshit Theory of the Week
- Thread starter Ender Rises
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Einherjar86
Active Member
Dak
mentat
Einherjar86
Active Member
Dak
mentat
Einherjar86
Active Member
This argument was specifically geared towards holidays; but any aspect of religion.
By "legitimacy" I mean an irrefutable claim to a specific holiday (i.e. no other religion is allowed to practice this holiday). My argument is that since there are multiple religions, and every practicing spiritualist considers his religion the "correct" one, then we have to accept that none of them are "correct." As soon as someone can posit any religion as the one he adheres to and believes in (which we see all the time when someone converts) then we have to admit that no single religion is "correct." Therefore, no holiday is more "correct" than any other. I fail to see how a particular culture can lay claim to a holiday if this is so.
If someone is arguing from within a religion, he would say "You don't have claim to that holiday, because your religion is wrong." Someone outside religion would say that "All these religions are wrong, therefore no one holiday is right."
By "legitimacy" I mean an irrefutable claim to a specific holiday (i.e. no other religion is allowed to practice this holiday). My argument is that since there are multiple religions, and every practicing spiritualist considers his religion the "correct" one, then we have to accept that none of them are "correct." As soon as someone can posit any religion as the one he adheres to and believes in (which we see all the time when someone converts) then we have to admit that no single religion is "correct." Therefore, no holiday is more "correct" than any other. I fail to see how a particular culture can lay claim to a holiday if this is so.
If someone is arguing from within a religion, he would say "You don't have claim to that holiday, because your religion is wrong." Someone outside religion would say that "All these religions are wrong, therefore no one holiday is right."
Dak
mentat
I believe you missed the point on Christmas entirely.
If you study the chronicaled historical account of the Catholic church, it is well documented that ancient pagan celebrations/holidays were grafted in and given a "Jesus veneer". There is nothing inherently Biblical about Christmas or Easter, and celebrations in the spring and late december time frames date several thousand years prior to the existance of the Catholic church.
That is the point. Specifically regarding the amalgymation of "Jesus" (the "son of YHWH") and pagan religions, this would have directly contradicted instructions from Jesus himself. Since Jesus said he came only to do the will of his Father, and his Father instructed in the OT to learn not the ways of the people you will disposess in Canaan, this would have included the celebration of the winter solstice and spring fertility festival.
Therefore, any claim to those holidays would go in direct contradiction of the orders of the very God supposedly being honored. Yes, Christians are by and large ignorant of their own religious writings, not to mention other religions and their teachings.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I don't care that there's nothing inherently Biblical in the traditions of Christmas or Easter. My point is that Christians and pagans making any claim to a holiday is irrelevant regardless of whether or not they stole it from somewhere else.
Dak
mentat
What is irrelevant about a subgroup making a claim to a holiday and accompanying celebratory traditions they created? Irrelevant to what?
Edit: Tacking the birth of Jesus onto the Winter Soltice is the religious equivalent of Apple using a PC with Windows Movie Maker to do a video presentation on Steve Jobs.
Edit: Tacking the birth of Jesus onto the Winter Soltice is the religious equivalent of Apple using a PC with Windows Movie Maker to do a video presentation on Steve Jobs.
Einherjar86
Active Member
These holidays mean something entirely different from religion to religion. Even if Christians completely stole Christmas from the tradition of the winter solstice and Saturnalia, it means something very different for Christians than it did for pagans. For the pagans to say to the Christians (if they were still around and gave a shit) "You can't have that holiday, it's ours; you stole it from us!" is completely irrelevant because the Christians would say it's their holiday. These two very different cultures are playing two different language games and are arguing for the wrong reasons. Once we step back and observe that neither is correct, there is no relevance in laying claim to the holiday. They're the same holiday, and at the same time two very different holidays. And they belong to no one.
Dak
mentat
To further explain this in the light of "legitimacy":
Yes, you could actually make a video presentation on Steve Jobs with Windows Movie Maker. But it would be an affront to everything that is Steve Jobs. This is the same effect/outcome that tacking Jesus onto the Winter Solstice creates.
Christianity as it stands currently, and has stood since 300ishAD on, has nothing to do with the Bible, and everything to do with the latest writing from some guy in a fancy suit, which is why I don't claim the title. It is by FAR, the most hypocritical of all religions.
Einherjar86
Active Member
If Christianity is hypocritical, it's because it contradicts its own internal workings and laws. I'm not arguing anything about internal workings. I'm saying as the ideology of Christianity stands (both now and in 300 AD), it signifies something entirely different from pagan ideology, regardless of whether or not they stole anything.
Jimmy... Dead.
contemplative curmudgeon
Who cares it's all mystic bullshit anyway!
NEXT!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101223/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_gays_in_military
Down with homophobia!
NEXT!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101223/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_gays_in_military
Down with homophobia!
Dak
mentat
I agree, but amalgymating with other religion's practices is part of the hypocrisy because doing so contradicts it's own internal workings and laws (assuming the Bible is supposed to be it's sole source of direction.)
@Jimmy: US military preeminance was already waning. This will merely hasten it's slide into mediocrity.
Jimmy... Dead.
contemplative curmudgeon
Preeminence was and still is waning according to you and now that I can join the military as a openly gay human being it's going to increase to the systems mediocrity? Do you think before you speak?
Dak, you have a lot of knowledge but I think you apply it carelessly. Your concepts are so far behind it's actually quite repulsive.
Dak, you have a lot of knowledge but I think you apply it carelessly. Your concepts are so far behind it's actually quite repulsive.
Dak
mentat
Behind according to whom? Public opinion? El oh el. Americans are so intelligent these days, who wouldn't want to go along with public opinion? 
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
No, behind because you think gay people being allowed to openly serve in the military will ruin our military's "pre-eminence", lol
Jimmy... Dead.
contemplative curmudgeon
Dak , I'm not talking about generalities, majority opinion or how smart the next person is, I'm talking about you as an individual. You always seem to be comparing yourself to this great prevalence.
lol, It's insane. There is no way any reasonable person would discriminate that blatantly. Sometimes I really just think you're trolling.
lol, It's insane. There is no way any reasonable person would discriminate that blatantly. Sometimes I really just think you're trolling.
Dak
mentat
Reasonable is subjective, and I believe most people lack the ability to reason. The military is very descriminatory by nature. If we are going to allow in gays, why have standards of any sort? The military already descriminates based on fitness, drug use, intelligence, and criminal background, and that is clearly violating the civil rights of at least 3 out of 4 Americans age 18-24.
Also, the civil rights of women and men who desire co-ed bunking in the military is also currently being infringed upon. Why is this travesty of civil and human rights not getting the same attention as GLBT rights is getting? God damn the fucking injustices in this fair nation. Next, businesses will start demanding education requirements for hiring and promotion to technical and management positions. This is clearly class descrimination. MY GOD ITS HORRIBLE, WHERE ARE ALL THE REASONABLE PEOPLE AT??
Ahem. As far as trolling goes: Do I go a little over the top sometimes on my rhetoric in posts? Maybe. But I assure you I am not trolling.
Jimmy... Dead.
contemplative curmudgeon
So you're now comparing requirements and standards in fitness, history of drug use, intelligence (which is important, yet subjective), and criminal background to sexual preference!?!?!?
Tell me something genius, how does sexual preference compare to the previous 4 that YOU mentioned? How can you do that?
WHEN BEING GAY IS NOT COMPARABLE TO A CRIME, DRUG USE OR YOUR INTELLECT.
Tell me something genius, how does sexual preference compare to the previous 4 that YOU mentioned? How can you do that?
WHEN BEING GAY IS NOT COMPARABLE TO A CRIME, DRUG USE OR YOUR INTELLECT.
