V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
dak is trolling, there's no way someone who says he's so "enlightened" can say some of these things 
Dakryn's Batshit Theory of the Week
- Thread starter Ender Rises
- Start date
Dak
mentat
They are similar in that before, they were all part of the arbitrary standards the military has for barring entry to various groups. If we are to strike down one, why not all? Since the arguement to repeal it was that forbidding gay people to serve in the military was a violation of civil rights. Therefore, forbidding any American to serve is a violation of his civil rights.
Edit: @ DC: I agree, but what no one would agree on is what the objective standard is.
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
Why not all? Because there are those things which affect performance and those that don't...you're being stupid about this.
drug use = if you are a regular drug user, you might become a liability, or be engaging in illegal actions while in uniform, or while you're supposed to be doing shit
in shape/athletic = you should know that this rule exists because you need to be fucking physically fit to do things that involve being fucking physically fit, derp
intelligence = we don't want you holding a gun if you're a goddamned retard
criminal background = you could be joining the armed forced to escape the law, so this rule exists. notice there are reasons for all these things.
gay people like men's buttholes. oh fucking no. this clearly means they will be a liability in a trained combat situation; because all gay people are concupiscent and flowery as fuck and will fuck dudes for no apparent reason and generally cause EVIL SODOMY and SINFUL BEHAVIOR and BUTTLUST.
you're a fucking joke dude.
drug use = if you are a regular drug user, you might become a liability, or be engaging in illegal actions while in uniform, or while you're supposed to be doing shit
in shape/athletic = you should know that this rule exists because you need to be fucking physically fit to do things that involve being fucking physically fit, derp
intelligence = we don't want you holding a gun if you're a goddamned retard
criminal background = you could be joining the armed forced to escape the law, so this rule exists. notice there are reasons for all these things.
gay people like men's buttholes. oh fucking no. this clearly means they will be a liability in a trained combat situation; because all gay people are concupiscent and flowery as fuck and will fuck dudes for no apparent reason and generally cause EVIL SODOMY and SINFUL BEHAVIOR and BUTTLUST.
you're a fucking joke dude.
Dak
mentat
What about a criminal record affects current job performace? My brother's application to the state troopers was thrown out because he marked "experimented with marijuana". He met all the other qualifications. Is this not a violation of civil rights on the level of discrimination based on sexual orientation?
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
Because marijuana use is fucking illegal, dude. You're dumb. Do you want me to call the wahmbulance for you because your brother did something illegal and then wasn't allowed to join the armed forces? He should've known it was illegal. It isn't a "civil right" to be able to join the armed forces after doing something illegal. Jesus.
also i appended my above post and ran down the general reasons why said things are not allowed
also i appended my above post and ran down the general reasons why said things are not allowed
Dak
mentat
#1. Drug User. It's already a violation of civil rights making drugs illegal. The military doesn't discriminate against alchohol users, and alcohol can and does cause just as many problems as illegal drugs do.
#2. Fitness/Age: There are many many many jobs in the military that do not require the ability to run several miles and lift ones own body weight. So why discriminate against obese people or the elderly? Age cannot be helped (just like supposedly sexual orientation can't), so why discriminate against a 60 year old who wants to help as he can?
#3. Intelligence: There are many many many jobs in the military that don't involve the handling of weapons (in fact, most don't).
#4: Criminal background. You can get in the military with a criminal background, but good luck getting a occupational specialty requiring a security clearance. Why not let bygones be bygones?
Bottom line, in each case civil rights are being violated.
Repealing DADT was not on the basis that the policy was hurting the effectiveness of the military, it was repealed because it violated civil rights. Therefore, since civil rights are more important than system effectiveness, why are all of the discriminatory standards not removed? Edit: Hint: All standards are discriminatory by nature.
I don't know why that is so hard to understand. I am not crying about my brother not being a trooper, my point was that there is discrimination everywhere no one cares about (including myself). So why the big fanfare for gays?
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
Okay, but I don't give a shit. Too fucking bad man.
Because it would be discriminatory in itself to just give amazing sit-on-your-ass jobs to everyone who was obese and made the kids who were fit coming in to it do all the grunt work that requires fitness. That is why, and why you are dumb and enjoy crying about discrimination despite not taking into account the fact that maybe these precedents were set to avoid even worse discrimination. QED.
Yes, because "holding a gun" is the only thing in the military that requires intelligence and know-how. Good call on that one. It was an example, and I didn't actually think you'd be dumb enough to argue it; I was merely using it as an example of the mean level of intelligence we should expect from those in our military. What about all those other jobs I just referred to above, also, such as how to do satellite/communications, radar stuff, other shit that involves technical/computational knowledge, etc.? Clearly this requires an intelligent person; possibly even moreso than someone with good trigger discipline. But you won't listen to my logical, rational arguments, because you enjoy distorting facts and truth to your bizarre, incongruously illogical viewpoints.
I don't claim to know enough about criminal statistics/criminal justice to accurately give you an answer here; for all I know, you might actually have a point, and thus, *plead the 5th*.
Civil rights do not mean what you think they mean, apparently, considering I just handily dismissed everything you said except one which I claim to not have enough data/knowledge on to make a clear point that I could stay behind.
You are drawing a false dichotomy, one that isn't even actually there, between "system effectiveness" and "civil rights violation". Given that you seem to have no real knowledge of civil rights other than your ridiculously poorly-argued viewpoint that using illegal drugs and then being denied entry into the military program of a country where said drugs are, y'know, illegal, because you did something fucking illegal and knew it was illegal is bad and somehow infringes upon those rights, I don't really think you are qualified to discuss civil rights.
Because it is horrifyingly embarrassing that we (up until now) let dark-ages, draconian shit like not allowing perfectly healthy, intelligent, rational people who happen to like other mens' buttholes serve in our military to be perpetrated in a civil society, often claiming to be the best country in the world? I dunno, something about that, probably, and how absolutely stupid as fuck it was. Same reason we made a big fanfare for black people when they got allowed into the military, same reason we made a big fanfare for women when they got allowed into the military.
Dak
mentat
First, it really is not a matter of civil rights that anyone can be barred from military service. That was my main point. Military service and civil rights don't have a single thing to do with each other.
As far as a major fanfare for women being in the military, there is a perfect example of how idiots triumphed over reason. I saw first hand on a daily basis for 5 years why women shouldn't be in the military. I only met two women out of probably a couple hundred the entire time I was in that I wouldn't have minded "going into combat with", and that was in the Marines. I am sure the ratio in the other services would be far worse.
Again, military service is not a civil right.
China is outmaneuvering the West economically, militarily, and geopolitically. They also maintain a policy of no gays in their military as well as very, very limited roles for women. Wonder why that is? Maybe because they care about winning as opposed to making sure every whining special interest group is appeased.
Is the regime oppressive with a poor track record of human rights etc etc etc? Sure. But my forte is military so I am going to focus on that for this particular issue, and China doesn't allow gays and women to serve for a reason, and that reason is because it is a tactical disadvantage.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I don't agree with Dak's views on gays in the military, but you need to stop acting like a dweeb.
His brother chose to mark "experimented with marijuana." He didn't test positive for it. It wasn't as though he smoked a joint before going to take his piss test. He willingly acknowledged the fact that "Yes: I've experimented with drugs." Now he's clean. Who knows when he did, and if his plan was to join the state troopers at that point? The discrimination laws against joining the armed forces for having experimented with marijuana are ridiculous; previously using a drug like marijuana is no reason to assume that it will currently affect one's performance.
You actually sound like a Right-wing fanatic right now. "Marijuana's illegal people! Illegal! Are we going to let former pot smoker's into our military! This is outrageous!!!"
Badbird
Never banned
Military intelligence? Isn't that known to be a oxymoron? And the the name-calling other users with terms such as dumb, retard, and whatever insulted being used needs to be stop. V5 and Dakryn, let's stop this now, before the warnings come up from MetalAges.
Badbird
Never banned
Wrong on every level of mankind. This post: Responsible for people like you. By the way, when you called yourself John Galt in another forum, why didn't you just leave the forum, like Galt did to society.
Jimmy... Dead.
contemplative curmudgeon
Dak, bottom line is that it's a job, and any job has requirements! That doesn't make it discriminatory it makes it selective by choice. The employer has that right. It's all according to what job you are applying for and the specifics of that job. If you wanted to be a professional personal trainer you would have to be fit, have certain knowledge, take a drug test and have a background check, a computer tech would require certain skills & knowledge and would go through that same process etc. but at what point does sexual preference come into the convo? NEVER! because the employer does not have that right! sexual preference has nothing to do with your ability - job performance, knowledge & skills. Fitness, intelligence and experience/history/background does.
Stop your sensationalist nonsense!
Stop your sensationalist nonsense!
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
All I'm saying is he knew it was illegal, the armed forces don't let people who do marijuana in, and he should've known. It's common sense.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I know, and I'm pretty sure Dak does too. He's arguing that it's ridiculous they don't let people who've experimented in. The fact that if his brother had lied he would have gotten in isn't relevant.
And sorry for being blunt, but I don't think calling Dak dumb achieves anything.
And sorry for being blunt, but I don't think calling Dak dumb achieves anything.
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
Fellas, this is like a nightmarish religion/politics discussion right now, noone wins and it goes onnnnnn and onnnnnn........
Matt
Active Member
Matt
Active Member
We are moving away from using people in combat anyway. Soon everything will be done remotely.
But as far as the women issue goes, I agree somewhat but there's not reason why they can't fill admin or similar jobs like that, so what's the big deal? And with the gays, there's no reason why a buffass gay dude who is about as straight acting as you can get and can qualify with an M16 shouldn't be allowed in a combat unit. People are just trying to survive out there. And overall, you aren't going to get too many feminine, flaming homos join up anyway. Why people worry about it is beyond me.
Dak, people like you just need to chill. C.H.I.L.L.
