Dakryn's Batshit Theory of the Week

As we have debated before, there is a big difference between a mere disparity in wealth, and someone who is unable to maintain existence in their current situation. Whether or not they are pissed off about the situation is really irrelevant.

This is one place where we disagree; I think it's entirely relevant because whether or not people are pissed off indicates relative tolerance of the politico-economic system in which they're constituted. You continually posit a form of "capitalist ethics"; but this matters very little next to the nearly infinite variety of individuals whose ethical framework reinforces the belief that they're being exploited, or ignored.

That Marxist article is pretty typical. I agree with plenty of his criticisms, but he loses me when he starts talking about the teleological sublimating moment when the proletariat supersedes the bourgeoisie. Historical relations aren't dialectical.
 
This is one place where we disagree; I think it's entirely relevant because whether or not people are pissed off indicates relative tolerance of the politico-economic system in which they're constituted. You continually posit a form of "capitalist ethics"; but this matters very little next to the nearly infinite variety of individuals whose ethical framework reinforces the belief that they're being exploited, or ignored.

That Marxist article is pretty typical. I agree with plenty of his criticisms, but he loses me when he starts talking about the teleological sublimating moment when the proletariat supersedes the bourgeoisie. Historical relations aren't dialectical.

Ironically, I think most of us are being exploited and/or ignored. This reality has nothing to do with market processes though. The market is the one place where I have a high element of control.
 
I agree, but you have a specific understanding of exploitation that might differ from someone else's. Many people feel themselves exploited by the market; or, at the very least, by politico-economic forces (that aren't entirely market-driven) over which they have no control.
 
Due to poor education, people are left in the dark about how most things work. Intentionally. Case in point, talking about the office of the president (And whoever happens to be running for/occupying the office) in terms of omniscience and allpowerfulness. IE "Obama improved the economy" or "Romney is going to bring jobs back". "Obama got me a phone!" etc. It's all more multifaceted than that. Of course some are going to blame "the market" for the problems. Of course, trying to even get a cogent definition of the market from those same people would be an exercise in exasperation. I suspect most would say "wall street", which really has little resemblance to anything I would consider the market. Stock exchanges have been overrun by central bank insiders and HFT algorithms. Your local gas station and food market trips are more like what I'm talking about, and people don't know how amazing the JIT system is given it's extreme vulnerability, but they heavily depend on it. They think the stuff appears on the shelf by magic. No, it's the market.
 
So do you then think that several whole generations of academics have suffered from poor education?

The entire system design (Prussian/Dewey) is poor, designed to turn out uncritical robots. That anyone makes out it otherwise is a failure in the system, not a success story for it.

Right now what passes for education in my sister-in-law's high school is Katt Williams standup and pretending to buy things online.

What passes for education in my community college is reading Time Magazine and listening to other uninformed opinions about the least important articles in the publication.

Outside of school, a 24/7 "news" cycle that spends as much time peddling state propaganda as it does distracting with the Kardashians and Jersey Shore.
 
I meant the generations of academics who shape curriculum in contemporary academia. Do you think that Sigmund Freud was poorly educated? Theodor Adorno? Michel Foucault? Fredric Jameson?
 
I meant the generations of academics who shape curriculum in contemporary academia. Do you think that Sigmund Freud was poorly educated? Theodor Adorno? Michel Foucault? Fredric Jameson?

How much did those men learn on their own vs spoon feeding in class? Also, what part of their education, whether spoonfed or personal, consisted of economics?


(Please remove Freud from the list of those who have made valuable contributions to academia) :cool:
 
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For your definition, economics would have to take up a majority of the education. :cool:

Also, all the information we're given is spoon-fed; it doesn't matter whether it's in class or a random find in the library. Simply taking an individual or text at its word isn't learning, whether in or out of class.
 
For your definition, economics would have to take up a majority of the education. :cool:

Also, all the information we're given is spoon-fed; it doesn't matter whether it's in class or a random find in the library. Simply taking an individual or text at its word isn't learning, whether in or out of class.

By spoonfed I mean the classroom environment. One or more specific books has been accepted as containing adequate knowledge on the subject so that rote regurgitation* rates recognition in the form of a grade, which translates eventually into a degree. To author work or give answers that disagree with the selected paradigm for the class is going to mean failure.
 
That's not necessarily true, it just takes an enormous amount of rigorous work in order to oppose and/or disprove a particular paradigm. In order to disprove a theory, you must first know it and its historical context/usage. It takes a long time to adequately know enough about a discursive history in order to effectively argue against it. These larger discursive structures constitute the paradigm in which we operate, so knowing all their ins and outs is paramount. It usually isn't one critic and/or text that blows a paradigm out of the water; it's a gradual process of interaction and contribution, as well as changing socio-cultural conditions.

Thomas Kuhn's The Structure of Scientific Revolutions talks a good deal about this whole idea.
 
That still doesn't change what the classroom environment generally is. Now, some teachers are able to transcend systematic limitations, and some students will pursue an education on their own outside the walls. That doesn't change my critique of the system itself.
 
Hm... interesting...

http://rantswithintheundeadgod.blogspot.com/2011/08/conservatism-myth-making-for-oligarchy.html#more

Libertarian Conservatives

As for the libertarian conservatives, they substitute the “free market” for the supernatural power of God. Instead of miracles brought about by God’s invisible hand, Darwinian competition in a marketplace is supposed to be meritocratic and self-regulating. Just as natural selection produces the “miracle” of designed (adapted) organisms, the unfettered market in which competition is allowed to occur with minimal if any interference produces the miracles of the correct price of goods, innovative products, and growing economies. The market is an environment that selects for economic excellence by bankrupting failures, producing a functional economy that preserves everyone’s freedom to compete.

Note that the libertarian is as scientistic as the liberal humanist, effectively reducing economics to biology (the reduction is thought to be accomplished by Game Theory). Note also that self-consistent libertarianism must speak only of functional markets, not of meritocratic or otherwise normative ones. This is because there are no norms or values--such as ethical or aesthetic ones--in the part of the world explained by biologists. Natural selection creates functional traits, in that the traits will work as their ancestors did, because the ancestors and descendents are built by the same genetic code, which is all that’s directly selected by the environment in which the host organisms live long enough to sexually reproduce members of their type. The prevailing designs in an environment that’s home to replicators are in no sense objectively best; they’re simply the results of some animals’ survival under certain conditions. When the conditions change, other species are built by mutated genes, and the process goes on and on. The animals themselves may approve of their ability to survive thanks to their adapted body-types, but that’s a subjective source of the value of those types.

Now, if that’s all a free market is, an arena for an economic version of natural selection, the products of free market forces are in no way objectively right or wrong, or better or worse. The myths to the contrary, put out by economic conservatives to hype various bubble markets and persuade people to support deregulation, commit the fallacy of social Darwinism, which is a variant of the naturalistic fallacy that infers an “ought” from an “is,” a prescription by a norm or value from a description of an objective fact. A social Darwinist takes Darwin’s biological theory to imply that human societies ought to be just like life in the wild, and that raw competition between humans is best because that’s our most natural state. There’s no such implication, and to the extent that free market libertarianism is a version of social Darwinism, libertarianism is logically flawed.

What the libertarian can add, by way of showing how the free market could be meritocratic, is that the free market produces goods that are appreciated, in that they’re goods that people choose to buy. The value of those goods, though, would be subjective and thus dependent on the quality of the consumers. The questions would remain whether a free market economy tends to elevate or lower the standard of the character of participants in that economy, and whether, in the latter case, the laissez faire economy is sustainable.

In any case, talk of subjective value has no place in libertarian conservatism if the libertarian has scientific aspirations for her political theory. And once we appreciate the scientism of that political theory, we can identify the minority whom the libertarian must say should rule over the majority. The minority must be just those select predators who do actually rise to the top of their food chain in the wild (free) economy. The libertarian isn’t committed to preserving a bloodline, like a defender of aristocracy; instead, the libertarian is religiously adamant that what must be preserved at all costs is an economy’s wildness, since brutal struggle in the wilderness is the selection mechanism for functional, well-adapted members of a society. Oligarchs may come and go, but what should be constant is everyone’s freedom to leap into the capitalistic jungle and do battle, to test his or her capacity to succeed in the conflict of ideas or wills, or whatever is supposed to be the social analogue of genes. The majority who should be ruled, then, consists just of those who are actually ruled in a free market, namely those who wind up having relatively little money or control over the mainstream media or the superficially-democratic political system.

Again, the scientistic reduction of economics to biology has no normative implications. But what makes some libertarian conservatives religious is their use of myths to sanctify the marketplace and to veer into fallacious social Darwinian glorification of economic struggles. (The historian Thomas Frank documents much of this in One Market Under God.) It’s one thing to compare economic competition in a harsh marketplace to natural selection, but it’s another to help oneself to normative evaluations of either natural process, worshipping business leaders for being “rewarded” by something ethereal and reified called The Market, and hyping capitalism as qualitatively superior to any other economic system. Whether capitalism is superior depends on which social goals are best, and thus on the relevance of those sets of statistics that the libertarian conservative likes to trot out when in a scientistic mood. And as a pseudoscientist, that sort of conservative has no authority to speak on the normative, cultural question of the direction in which a society should head. It may be that a fine social goal is to maintain the ecosystem so that organisms can continue to live in it, and that capitalistic systems tend not to be so self-regulating that they take that long-term concern into account.

Regardless, the religious libertarian conservative (as opposed to a traditional monotheistic one) adds a half-baked theology to quasibiological economics, mythologizing and obscuring what actually happens in a minimally-regulated market. For example, competition tends to stop when a monopoly or an oligopoly naturally forms and potential competitors are bought up before they can effectively challenge the ruling companies. The rulers then rig the system in their favour, purchasing politicians with campaign contributions and with the implicit promise of a cushy private sector job; writing bills with their armies of lobbyists; and concocting bubble markets that amount to massive frauds, escaping unpunished when their handiwork--planned for obsoleteness--crumbles. Thus, the “winners” in a once-competitive market tend to violate the libertarian’s creed that the market shall not be artificially regulated, since the oligarchs eliminate competition or “uncertainty” for themselves whenever possible, preferring socialism for the wealthy and wild competition for the rabble.
 
The article starts off on relatively solid ground, but he starts diluting and confusing the message when he starts interchanging market with free market, "minimal regulation" with regulation, government presence and bubbles with the free market, etc.

All the problems the writer presents are due to the existence of the regulatory apparatus, since they are the ones exercising the control to pick winners and losers. If the companies they are supposed to be regulating happen to gain control of them, why is that bad vs someone else controlling them?

Edit: BTW bubbles can be caused purely by market actions, but we haven't really seen this happen. Bubbles are [generally] caused by too much money chasing too few specific goods, and like we saw in the dotcom bubble and the housing bubble, a herd effect takes affect when people start seeing prices skyrocket and "instant millionaires" being made, etc. Where does the too much money come from in these scenarios? The central bank and it's satellite sisters in the major banks. Artifically low interest rates and relaxed lending standards (for the housing bubble add in government lenders). This is precisely what is still going on in an effort to prop up the housing market and therefore asset problems and therefore balance sheets for both regular banks and the Fed.

The market solution for malinvestment and mismanagement is bankruptcy and liquidation. We never allow this to occur on the grand scale though so the problems just build.
 
All the problems the writer presents are due to the existence of the regulatory apparatus, since they are the ones exercising the control to pick winners and losers. If the companies they are supposed to be regulating happen to gain control of them, why is that bad vs someone else controlling them?

This is it; this is the crux of our eternal argument, and I think your conception of it is flawed (to put it bluntly; sorry).

You continually make it sound as though regulatory apparatuses are inherently opposed to a true capitalism, or free market. Free markets are most functional without regulatory measures. This is a fine argument to make, but I think it's completely misleading and, ultimately, pointless.

You conclude above by asking why it's worse for companies to regulate (to the best of their abilities) market conditions rather than some central political authority? That's a fine question, but it really eludes the point. In the past you've said how future regulation doesn't justify regulation now; and I completely agree with that line of argument; but your presumably ethically tolerant/politically primitive solution merely masquerades as a solution.

You make it sound as though central political forces are the primary antagonist; but central political forces only appear where there's money funding them. Centrally accumulated capital paves the way for, in turn, centrally regulating/dictating coercive structures. You say: so a company in a free-market society begins instituting regulatory measures; so what? How is that worse than the government doing it now? But the point is that this is exactly how central political entities gain so much power: through large quantities of capital being thrust in their direction.

I think that free-market libertarianism misplaces the problem. It isn't central regulatory forces that are the root of the issue; it's capital accumulation directed toward funding those centrally-governing forces.
 
I'm not going to defend the actions of the Rockefellers and JPMorgans, et al. But these men didn't build the US Government. They merely used their money to influence it, just like everyone else tries to do. They were just more successful at other things, and therefore more successful at influencing the government.

When you willingly create an apparatus that's entire purpose is to act as a vehicle for violence, and then give many people the chance at controlling it, you can't get mad when someone else controls it. Alternately, restricting opportunity for control is just as bad and arbitrary.

Separately, the irony on the banking side as far as the money funding goes is that the bankers and government working together basically pay themselves. It's a massive money laundering scheme, where the wealth is stolen from people who aren't even involved in the process at all. They manufacture their own "capital", and people accept it not knowing any better. The creation of the central bank is an example of where particular industry titans lobby to create the very thing that supposedly is going to limit/regulate them. It's cheaper to build it yourself than have to fight to take it over from someone else later. But your average person just nods along with arguments about "regulation".

To be clear, I think it is bad for there to be a regulatory agency backed by the gun of the state, which some particular corporation that was supposed to fall under the regulation has now assumed control of. But that is going to happen regardless, every time, whether overtly or covertly. It's just all overt now since few seem to care anymore. The Monsanto's and the Goldman Sachs of the world are crowing about it and there's no repercussions.

In all, none of the attacks on market functions are economic at all. They generally state that we can't trust people and therefore must regulate them. But who is doing said regulating? People. Who can't be trusted.