Dakryn's Batshit Theory of the Week

I'll address the intermingling below, but I want to address the "always changing" point, and my response is that change doesn't automatically mean it becomes something other. The USGov didn't have the DHS 15 years ago. Does that make it any more or less a state? On the other side, we have gone from exchanging eggs for turnips to metal monies to paper monies to digital bits for digital bits (like using bitcoins to buy virtual items in a game). These haven't made voluntary exchanges any less a voluntary exchange (of course where they are voluntary).

I mainly mean that concerning war/peace, government/market, the distinction you make simply doesn't hold. When you use the word to refer to coercive government action, it often contains some orientation toward peace. And when you refer to peaceful market transactions, this doesn't occlude the fact that there are violent, undesirable, or coerced transactions that occur.

Deception, coercion, etc, invalidate the definition. If someone withholds information that they have AIDs to get "voluntary" sex, is this not rape?

No, that isn't rape.

It's telling that your examples are getting more complicated and not making your points.

Why can't we differentiate? I think you theorize the "market" like an event, say a party, where some people are having a good time getting along mutually, while others are date raping in upstairs bedroom, and others are bullying in a corner, and that since it is "at the party", it's all "partying and indistinguishable", that the party "facilitated the date rape"/"bullying" etc. The dateraper/rapee might be "at a party" geographically, but they are not "partying" nor a part of the party - like a shoplifter is only at the store. Being at a party does not mean you are "partying", any more than being a business or at a business means you are acting in a market fashion.

Distinguishment and discrimination are necessary to function, and the fact that individuals can display a range of actions/behaviors dependent on setting and time doesn't make the actions all the same, anymore than intermingling of institutions of war(state) and exchange (nominally business) blur the actions. The state is an institution, businesses are institutions. The market is not an institution. This might be the crux of the difficulty, in trying to compare an institution with a non-institution. There is no "President" of the market, or a "CEO" of the market.

Of course we need to distinguish and differentiate to function; but you're arguing that in an absolutely base-level, zero-degree free market, our words would somehow align perfectly with what they mean, and that human beings (or the market) would somehow know when certain actors have crossed the line, or manipulated circumstances to his or her advantage, etc.

I understand why Deleuze and Guattari's notion of uninterrupted flows appeals to you; but you seem to miss the fact that in their theorization of actual material reality, those distinctions do not exist. None of the distinctions we make in our arguments exist. Distinctions are applications of re-coding, reterritorialization. Now, this practice is certainly necessary for us to function, but your whole approach conflates the spheres of thought and action.

You claim that we need to make these distinctions (which is true), but you also believe that these distinctions somehow conform to a broader objectivity, possibly material reality itself. I just find your methodology (as far as theorizing goes) confused and contradictory.
 
Already, a thousand blogs and columns insist the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change's new report is a rabid concoction of scare stories whose purpose is to destroy the global economy. But it is, in reality, highly conservative.

Reaching agreement among hundreds of authors and reviewers ensures that only the statements which are hardest to dispute are allowed to pass. Even when the scientists have agreed, the report must be tempered in another forge, as politicians question anything they find disagreeable: the new report received 1,855 comments from 32 governments, and the arguments raged through the night before launch.

In other words, it's perhaps the biggest and most rigorous process of peer review conducted in any scientific field, at any point in human history.

http://www.theguardian.com/environm.../27/ipcc-climate-change-report-global-warming
 
I mainly mean that concerning war/peace, government/market, the distinction you make simply doesn't hold. When you use the word to refer to coercive government action, it often contains some orientation toward peace. And when you refer to peaceful market transactions, this doesn't occlude the fact that there are violent, undesirable, or coerced transactions that occur.

The definition of market actions I'm using does in fact occlude violence. "Peaceful actions" by government are not truly peaceful, because it's funded by theft. It's no better than neighborhood outreach by the mafia.

No, that isn't rape.

Why not? Sex under false pretenses. Sales under false pretenses. Rape, theft.

It's telling that your examples are getting more complicated and not making your points.

In my limited time I haven't constructed the most succinct arguments. However, the analogies are not incongruous.

Of course we need to distinguish and differentiate to function; but you're arguing that in an absolutely base-level, zero-degree free market, our words would somehow align perfectly with what they mean, and that human beings (or the market) would somehow know when certain actors have crossed the line, or manipulated circumstances to his or her advantage, etc.

No, I'm not.

I understand why Deleuze and Guattari's notion of uninterrupted flows appeals to you; but you seem to miss the fact that in their theorization of actual material reality, those distinctions do not exist. None of the distinctions we make in our arguments exist. Distinctions are applications of re-coding, reterritorialization. Now, this practice is certainly necessary for us to function, but your whole approach conflates the spheres of thought and action.

Why can't they exist? I would argue they do, from the same or similar position that "smallpox didn't exist before it was named" and so forth.

You claim that we need to make these distinctions (which is true), but you also believe that these distinctions somehow conform to a broader objectivity, possibly material reality itself. I just find your methodology (as far as theorizing goes) confused and contradictory.

I don't see contradiction or confusion. Objectivity is, of course, always under scrutiny. I think that, like Math, economic law is woven into the fabric of objective reality. Whether or not we can ever fully flesh it out is up for debate. What some people confuse is that economic law isn't "how people will act" specifically, or even direct cause and effect (with a more robust understanding of contingency). But that certain actions weigh on certain sides of a scale, and that certain actions have common reactions, and so on. The science is still young, and economics has a social aspect, which makes it ever the more difficult to tease apart. But this difficulty in teasing is not grounds to just assert that since both ends of a possible continuum are on the same continuum they are indistinguishable is little better than mystifying the whole thing.
 
Surprise left hook! This isn't going anywhere, for a few reasons:

Why not? Sex under false pretenses. Sales under false pretenses. Rape, theft.

Rape is about power, not sex; the actual material action is not the primary motivation.

Theft is not about power. Theft is about the actual material object.

I think that, like Math, economic law is woven into the fabric of objective reality.

Then we'll just keep circling the drain.
 
Surprise left hook! This isn't going anywhere, for a few reasons:

Rape is about power, not sex; the actual material action is not the primary motivation.

Theft is not about power. Theft is about the actual material object.

Sure rape is about power, sometimes. Who is to say theft isn't about power sometimes? In all cases, people are seen as objects.

Then we'll just keep circling the drain.

Because you don't believe in any objective reality? Or one that is knowable? There is a difference.
 
It's pretty well-substantiated that people who just want sex don't go out and rape other people. They either jerk off or find a hooker. That's what sex addicts do. They don't rape.

Sociopaths addicted to power rape people.

And I'm not sure whether I believe in an objective reality or not; and if so, it definitely isn't knowable. But I'm skeptical because of the math in quantum physics, which isn't consistent. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle looks like an epistemological problem, but there are some who suggest that the inconsistent math reflects a gap, or lack, in reality itself.
 
He conveniently left out Zimmerman's comment on the damn "assholes" who "always get away." Important information to have, Stefan.

Not sure why he's so adamant about the legality when he's a proposed anarcho-capitalist. What does he care about legality? Or is he willing to admit that occasionally, the law accords to acceptable ethical standards?
 
Ha, how so? I'm not even claiming anything.

He's appealing to the law in order to vindicate Zimmerman, essentially; but Molyneux doesn't believe that the law, as established and conditioned by the state, should justify or substantiate anything. So what's his point?

EDIT: my best guess is that he's critiquing the progressivist attitude's ignorance of legislative process in their ideological condemnation of Zimmerman. That I don't have any issue with.

I just don't agree with the overall urge to reduce the racism of this case to its actors. Just because Trayvon Martin was likely a violent, aggressive jackass doesn't mean there was no racism involved; it just wasn't involved on the level of the individual actors.
 
Okay, this is going to be a long comment.

I want to say a bit more about this; it's been bugging me:

Because you don't believe in any objective reality? Or one that is knowable? There is a difference.

And I'm not sure whether I believe in an objective reality or not; and if so, it definitely isn't knowable. But I'm skeptical because of the math in quantum physics, which isn't consistent. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle looks like an epistemological problem, but there are some who suggest that the inconsistent math reflects a gap, or lack, in reality itself.

I didn't do a good job of really exploring the issue here. We seem to be presented with three possibilities:

a) there is no objective reality
b) there is an objective reality, but it's unknowable (the question begged is: to whom?)
c) there is an objective reality, and it can be known (again, by whom?)

It's important to realize that the first choice, typically associated with what many like to call "postmodern" philosophies, isn't simply posited as an axiom or presupposition. The apparent rejection of objective reality by certain strands of modern thought is a consequence of certain logical acrobatics, and issues of logic grounded in material fact that don't seem to coincide.

The most obvious examples of this claim come from poststructuralist thinkers (Jacques Derrida, Judith Butler, Jean Baudrillard, etc.), many of whom stress the importance of material bodies as signifiers, and thus always-already caught up in a symbolic structure where the stand for something, thus no longer immediate, but mediating a relationship. This isn't a presupposition, but a conclusion of the way words, bodies, objects, etc. are treated in society.

Since appeals to objective reality are often made to justify our scientific methodologies, our empirical studies, and our efforts to more accurately depict reality, then we must assume that reality is knowable at some level - we, unfortunately, just haven't made the leap yet. But we should continue to pursue our findings and our experiments, since this will inevitably lead our approximations closer and closer to objective reality.

I'm of the opinion that this approach and argument is laden with shortsighted flaws, mainly ones that emerge from the paradoxes that arise from the notion of objective reality.

The most recent move in this discussion (that I've read) has not been made by a poststructuralist, but by Žižek, who draws explicitly on the "bodies" of quantum physics (mathematics, particles, atoms, etc.):

The eternal naïve-realist question "How does objective reality look without me, independently of me?" is a pseudo-problem, since it relies on a violent abstraction from the very reality it attempts to grasp: "objective reality" as a mathematicized set of relations is "for us" the result of a long process of conceptual abstraction. This does not devalue the result, making it simply dependent on our "subjective standpoint," but it does involve a paradox: "objective reality" (the way we construct it through science) is a Real which cannot be experienced as a reality. In its effort to grasp reality "independently of me," mathematicized science erases "me" from reality, ignoring (not the transcendental way I constitute reality, but) the way I am part of this reality.

Our appeals to objective reality thus contain an implicit paradox. They cannot simultaneously account for the ability of reality to subsist without subjective perception, and the existence of the subject within reality itself (as a part of "objective" reality). Furthermore, in this scenario we must admit that reality cannot exist without subjects to perceive it, since the reality that exists with subjects would not be the same reality as that without subjects.

Now, we might insist that subjects can still exist within reality, but we're simply unable to perceive objective reality as a whole. This doesn't mean that objective reality doesn't exist, it simply doesn't exist for us. This is a very good and convincing rejoinder.

The problem arises when we attempt to make measurements and experiments that propose to approximate the objectivity of reality. If we admit that reality doesn't exist for us, and that claiming it does results in paradox, then we must prostrate ourselves before the depressing fact that our experiments can never accurately capture reality and represent it back to us. In fact, they can't even get close. This was Niels Bohr's famous claim about Heisenberg's principle:

While Heisenberg's point is that we cannot establish the simultaneous position and momentum of a particle because the very act of measurement intervenes in the measured constellation and disturbs its coordinates, Bohr's point is a much stronger one concerning the very nature of reality itself - particles in themselves do not have a determinate position and momentum, thus we should abandon the standard notion of "objective reality" populated by things equipped with a fully determined set of properties.

For Bohr, the intervention of atomistic subjects not only prohibits the possibility of an objective understanding of reality; it precludes the possibility of reality existing objectively. The existence of subjects who participate in the act of measuring, calculating, hypothesizing, etc. means that objective reality must account for their measurements, calculations, and hypotheses. But if the point is that reality exists objectively, without those interventions, then we encounter the paradox, which can be put in the following positive way:

A universe may be possible with no subjects to observe it; but our universe cannot exist without subjects to observe it. Or, put differently:

Our objective reality must include our efforts to perceive it. If it subsisted without our efforts, it would not be the same reality.

In Žižek's conclusion:

Therein, perhaps, lies the ultimate philosophical consequence of quantum physics: that what is most brilliant and daring experiments demonstrate is not that the description of reality it offers is incomplete, but that reality itself is ontologically "incomplete," indeterminate - the lack that we take as an effect of our limited knowledge of reality is part of reality itself.

There is, of course, an obverse to this possibility. Perhaps objective reality does exist, and does subsist without our perception of it.

In that case, I would put forth the argument that subjects, in fact, do not exist.
 
Ha, how so? I'm not even claiming anything.

He's appealing to the law in order to vindicate Zimmerman, essentially; but Molyneux doesn't believe that the law, as established and conditioned by the state, should justify or substantiate anything. So what's his point?

EDIT: my best guess is that he's critiquing the progressivist attitude's ignorance of legislative process in their ideological condemnation of Zimmerman. That I don't have any issue with.

I just don't agree with the overall urge to reduce the racism of this case to its actors. Just because Trayvon Martin was likely a violent, aggressive jackass doesn't mean there was no racism involved; it just wasn't involved on the level of the individual actors.

Alright, fair enough, but whatever the collective consciousness says or what the phenomenological symbolism is or whatever lol the guy is innocent, yes?
 
It's pretty well-substantiated that people who just want sex don't go out and rape other people. They either jerk off or find a hooker. That's what sex addicts do. They don't rape.

Sociopaths addicted to power rape people.

Not all rape is committed by "Serial rapists" or something close to what you are limiting the action to. People who just want to "Get off" obviously don't need to rape anyone. But if you want to get off in a particular way or with a particular person, and certain technicalities get in the way (like STDs, age, "no", etc), that doesn't always stop you, eg date rape.

Don't currently have the time to go further on objective reality.
 
Not all rape is committed by "Serial rapists" or something close to what you are limiting the action to. People who just want to "Get off" obviously don't need to rape anyone. But if you want to get off in a particular way or with a particular person, and certain technicalities get in the way (like STDs, age, "no", etc), that doesn't always stop you, eg date rape.

Date rape is not just about people who want to have sex. Perpetrators are often individuals with fantasies of sexual dominance, and that's about power.
 

http://www.xenosystems.net/quote-notes-35/

The link inside and the subsequent comments pretty much shred that ignorant (as in ignorant of politics/human psychology/etc) piece of journalism.

The salience of 1998 is that’s roughly when the climate models were built. Since they uniformly predicted higher temperatures than what we observed, they have been falsified. If science were being done, they would all be roundly condemned and discarded and their authors (wrongly) mocked and ridiculed.They’re not, so it isn’t.

Another interpretation besides the ‘they’re not listening to the meta-public relations about our public relations” theory is that you can really have this kind of conversation in public – in a completely overt and widely disseminated manner – but because everyone erroneously thinks they’re above average and part of the paternalistic community having to manage the opinions of all the others, that is, inside the opinion circle, making it instead of receiving it – they all simultaneously go along with manipulating themselves.
 
But der Spiegel does pack a legitimate counterpunch to the absurd assertions in that Guardian op-ed: That chatter is "debate", and that any side outside of the "official" side is getting a hearing. The comments are a bonus.
 
If you ask the wrong questions you will get the wrong answers. The IPCC has been finding stuff for years, and hasn't led to accurate models, primarily because even solid data on climate history is only useful for correlation.

But the "debate" over anthropocentric global climate change in official arenas is nil. We have ad home slinging between "treehuggers" and "holoc-" I mean "climate change deniers". Merely being skeptical is now a pejorative.