Dakryn's Batshit Theory of the Week

I meant thinking in general; thought is abstract.

The state is the entire population if it's merely the manifestation of Law in people's psyches. Not some specific law such as "thou shalt not kill." I mean Law in general, its very form (its content does not matter at all). It has nothing to do with payroll or employment; this is all far more developed than what I'm talking about. I don't agree with your dissociation of Law and State. They're inseparable, in my opinion. You can't have the Law and not have the State. In fact, I would claim that Law is itself the State; the form of the State prior to its later manifestations. It's an institution, even if it doesn't possess employees.

The divisiveness doesn't depend on any of the Law's content. Any notion of Law, by its very institution, will be divisive. Also, the "nature of the people" might play some role; but this sounds like there must be natures that are superior to others.

Without the state, there is no application of Law. This is why I don't buy your separation. Without some form of the State, the Law depends on individual humans to act accordingly; again, this suggests a cognitive revolution that would, in fact, make Law obsolete. The State is not a mistake or a flawed application of any tool; it's inherently connected to the process of human cognition and capacity to conceive of Law.

It's no surprise you are insisting on rolling the state, Law, and punishment into one big opaque ball. It's that exact errancy that makes any current abolition of a state rather pointless.

Humans, in general, act according to the Law because of nature, not because of the state. Otherwise we would have neither Law nor State, or in the least very different Laws. The idealistic argument for the state is to protect the majority who naturally act in accordance from the minority who do not.
 
Errancy, huh? Doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me. They're bound together in a way that isn't dissolvable like you're trying to make it.

Law might very well emerge naturally; but then the State does also.
 
You didn't address my point about the nature of the ideal purpose of the state.

If the majority (but not all) did not already act in accordance with some sort of universal Law, a codification would not emerge. Codification emerges as a tool for instruction and as a reaction to those who do not naturally act in accordance: Primarily restricted to psycho and sociopaths. The problem is that psycho and sociopaths are wired differently for any variety of reasons, and simply don't care that they aren't in accordance. Since codification does not restrict those who do not care, the state is accepted as necessary and even good. (Notice I did not say the state emerged as a consequence. The state's emergence is/was separate). The problem is that the state not only is relatively unsuccessful at restricting those types, it creates two new problems in addition: It is a tool custom made for those types, and it's structure even forces those not of that type to act in similar fashion as a matter of official conduct. So to combat psychopathy we have codified it, ensuring it's expansion and empowerment.

The state emerged in two separate forms but often connected: Familial hierarchy that eventually grew disconnected due to size, and the warlord. Both are based on the concept of the population as subordinate and property. The law must be appealed to, as does spirituality, to hold where power does not. As the state loses it's association with law and/or spirituality, it must of necessity "appeal" to, or bring to bear, physical power.
 
You didn't address my point about the nature of the ideal purpose of the state.

The ideal nature of the State is posterior to any manifestation of it, so I'm not sure how it concerns me.

The State's ideal nature, as you outline it, is something appealed to much later in its development. When I use the terms "Law" and "State", I'm describing something very primitive; the tendency for concrete codification and state institutions. Law (capital L) and State (capital S) can have no specifics of codification ascribed to them. They are nothing more than the tendency for laws and states to emerge. This is why any manifestation of the Law or State is reliant on human individuals; but it has nothing to do with majority or minority. From texts that I've read, and from my understanding, Law and State are very primitive and, in fact, inherent to the individual itself. It is a sign and symptom of the irreducibility and divisibility of the individual, and it translates into the cognitive division at the heart of human individuals.

Any notion of idealism comes after the material; it doesn't explain the State or provide a genealogy of it. All it does is provide a rationalization of it. The truth is that the State, in its very primitive, basic and abstract form, is a part of the human individual. I assign no value or quality to this assertion, it's merely something I believe based on my understanding of human thought and history.
 
The manifestation of the Law in the psyche is the Law. The Law is the instruction. The State is an apparatus which can form with no law save Obey Me/Obey Him, which is not Law.
 
You can't have obedience or disobedience without Law. Law is still present with disobedience.

Yes, I know. This is what you said:

The State is an apparatus which can form with no law save Obey Me/Obey Him, which is not Law.

You seemed to be saying that pure obedience doesn't mean that Law is in place; but I'm trying to say that obedience in any form means that Law is functioning. The specific nature of the laws, their codification, doesn't matter at all.
 
Maybe. I see Law as enabling cooperation and enhancing inter/personal wellbeing. "law" does not necessarily have to do this and neither does hierarchy.

Edit: I think "Hierarchy" would be a more suitable label for what you are looking for as something existent with Law. State is only a particular manifestation of Hierarchy, and I believe a malformed version.
 
What Ein likes to talk about:

http://reason.com/archives/2013/06/20/overselling-psychiatry

If the DSM is not a map of an actual world whose contours can be independently confirmed, then opening up old arguments or starting new ones is an invitation to chaos. With each revision of the DSM comes the potential for instability and discord that cannot be settled by turning to the microscope or the computed tomography (CT) scanner. Knowing this, Frances says the goal of a DSM revision should be to stabilize an inescapably fragile system rather than to perfect it—or, as he put it to me, “loving the pet, even if it is a mutt.”

The mutt has certainly caused some mischief. Among its more prominent detractors was Steven Hyman, who in 1996 became the head of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH). A neurogeneticist by training, Hyman hadn’t thought much about nosology before taking over at NIMH. It “seemed a bit like stamp collecting,” he once wrote in a 2010 article in the Annual Review of Clinical Psychology, “an absorbing activity perhaps, but not a vibrant area of inquiry.”

But then he realized that the DSM was “a critical platform for research.” Its categories and criteria were the basis of decisions made by journal editors, grant reviewers, regulators, and the Food and Drug Administration, which meant that scientists were bound to frame their proposals in the DSM’s language. “DSM-IV diagnoses controlled the research questions they could ask, and perhaps, even imagine,” he wrote.

“The tendency [is] always strong,” John Stuart Mill wrote in 1869, “to believe that whatever receives a name must be an entity or being, having an independent existence of its own.” To Hyman, who quoted Mill approvingly, this tendency had led all the stakeholders in nosology—scientists, regulators, editors, doctors, drug companies, and, of course, patients—to take the labels not as arbitrary descriptions but as the names of actual diseases. They had, at least according to Hyman, reified what were intended only as concepts.

And this was no mere abstract concern. “It became a source of real worry to me,” Hyman said, “that as Institute director I might be signing off on the expenditure of large sums of taxpayers’ money for…projects that almost never questioned the existing diagnostic categories despite their lack of validation.” The DSM, Hyman concluded, had “created an unintended epistemic prison,” and anyone with a stake in the mental health treatment system was trapped inside.

The Termite-Riddled Foundation

While he was at the National Institute of Mental Health, Hyman had occasion to confide his reservations to at least one colleague: Steven Mirin, then the APA’s medical director. On a weekend afternoon in the summer of 1998, the two were eating lunch by the side of Mirin’s swimming pool in the D.C. area when Mirin asked Hyman if the NIMH would give the APA money to get the next revision of the DSM up and running.

Mirin’s request for taxpayer money to kick-start a project from which a private organization would profit was not as untoward as it might seem. After all, the DSM is indispensable to public health, and the NIMH had helped fund the DSM-IV. Nonetheless, and despite their friendship, Hyman said no. He told Mirin that a revision was premature, not only because the ink was barely dry on DSM-IV but also because psychiatrists had yet to come up with a better way to chart the landscape of mental illness.
 

No religion is a religion of peace; even Christ said he did not bring peace, but a sword (Matthew 10:34).

I don't like this subordination of non-Western religions/cultures to the West itself, as though somehow emulating Western societies salvages one from the third-world dustbin. The inconvenient truth is that the West thrives on the third world, and it's actually a structural component and result of twentieth-century global corporate capitalism.

Nick Land makes a very radical but compelling remark when he says: "If fascism is evaded in metropolitan societies it is only because a chronic passive genocide trails in the wake of capital and commodity markets as they displace themselves around the Third World, 'disciplining' the labour market, and ensuring that basic commodity prices are not high enough to distribute capital back into primary producer societies."

Also, I'm not sure I agree that Islam is "backward," even in its fundamentalist state (unless we want to argue that all religion is "backward," which I wouldn't agree with). Slavoj Žižek contests that Muslim fundamentalists are, in fact, actively engaged modernists: "the Muslim fundamentalists are not true fundamentalists, they are already 'modernists', a product and a phenomenon of modern global capitalism - they stand for the way the Arab world strives to accommodate itself to global capitalism. We should therefore also reject the standard liberal [i.e. Western] wisdom according to which Islam still needs to accomplish the Protestant revolution which would open it up to modernity: this Protestant revolution was already accomplished more than two centuries ago, in the guise of the Wahhabi movement which emerged in (what is today) Saudi Arabia. Its basic tenet, the exercise of ijtihad (the right to interpret Islam on the basis of changing conditions), is the precise counterpart to Luther's reading of the Bible."


Very illuminating. Although, what does Mr. Durden mean when he says that what is happening today would have once "sparked mass protests and toppled presidents"? Is he suggesting that a certain return to origins is in order? That we need to salvage some form of purer Americanism?

I think it's important to consider the possibility that the concept of "privacy" is changing, and, along with it, acceptances of what might be interpreted as infringements on our privacy. Durden's opening paragraphs come off as reactionary and lamenting cultural and technological development.


Indeed. Thanks Foucault. :cool:

Actually, that reminds me: you should seek out Foucault's Madness and Civilization. I think it's something you would appreciate. It's an abridged (but sufficient) version of his History of Madness, which was actually his doctoral dissertation (or the equivalent thereof).
 
Very illuminating. Although, what does Mr. Durden mean when he says that what is happening today would have once "sparked mass protests and toppled presidents"? Is he suggesting that a certain return to origins is in order? That we need to salvage some form of purer Americanism?

I think it's important to consider the possibility that the concept of "privacy" is changing, and, along with it, acceptances of what might be interpreted as infringements on our privacy. Durden's opening paragraphs come off as reactionary and lamenting cultural and technological development.

Durden is just the pseudonym for all "inhouse" Zero hedge contributors btw. I don't think it necessarily has to be a call for a "return" to some former situation when one points out that what would be a big deal yesterday is not a big deal today, or whether it should be.

That said, a lot of stuff on ZH has similar lamenting about the "Fallen State of America". I'm so used to it I don't even see it anymore.


Indeed. Thanks Foucault. :cool:

Actually, that reminds me: you should seek out Foucault's Madness and Civilization. I think it's something you would appreciate. It's an abridged (but sufficient) version of his History of Madness, which was actually his doctoral dissertation (or the equivalent thereof).

Will add it to my ever growing backlog.