Dark Passion Play

When you say Tarja's voice is different to how she sings in her classical concerts what do you mean? Is her technique different? The tone of her voice? I've only heard snippets of her classical stuff on Youtube and having got her Xmas album and listened to it I was curious.
Yes, when she uses classical singing tecnique, her voice is quite different compared to her "pop"-tecnique she used with Nightwish, especially on the two latter CDs CC and Once. On the first three Nw-CDs she was rather a beginner in the measures of classical singing and on CC she was actually quite lost while trying her newly developed pop-tecnique which she later mastered well on Once. I don't mean she didn't sound great on those albums, this only concern her technical skill and her advancing in it.

Many people think that she sang better on Oceanborn and on Wishmanster than she did on the latter CDs, but in fact her classical technique on those CDs was so poor that she had to struggle thorugh the recording sessions and she never could perform certain tracks live. She was young and learning church music in the Sibelius Academy, had singing as a side topic, thus not having attended to full time training in classical singing, which she later did in Germany for three years. Obviously they had to correct some minor details in her singign with electronic means in the studio, but it was also Tuomas to blame because he had no clue about her range and limits at the time he composed those songs. AFAIK, on the FWTE-video some parts of her singing were overdubbed later with studio takes because she failed so bad in some parts on the live recording.

Classical singer is considered a learner at least until s/he turns 30 yrs, but the most demanding opera parts like The Queen Of The Night from the "Magic Flute" by Mozart which includes the difficult "Der Hölle Rache"-aria are (almost) never given to be performed by singers under 35 yrs old.

If you have her Christmas album "Henkäys Ikuisuudesta", you can compare the classical tracks "Ave Maria", "Magnificat Quia Respexit", "Varpunen Jouluaamuna" and "Jo Joutuu Ilta" to the rest of the tracks which are sung in pop- or semi-pop technique. The difference is very easy to hear if you turn it up a little.

I've only been to one of her live Christmas concert on the first tour in 2005 when she had more classical oriented repertoire than in 2006. She performed full acoustic in a sold out theater in front of 750 people. What struck me by surprise was the sheer power of her voice. Really, the voice was big and pure, no amps were necessary even the theater was quite big and full of people. Had I never heard classical performances before, I might have been quite amazed. No matter what people say, she has very good classical live voice and she knows how to use it.

Sorry for going offtopic, I'll get me coat. :oops:
 
@Enigma, no that does help a lot. Thanks a bundle
*goes back to relisten to 'Quia respexit' and 'Varpurnen'.*

Yeah I do hear the difference now. I definitely like 'Varpurnen' v lovely song. I almost wish I understood Finnish so I could sing this. Didn't Marco sing a version of this song as well? I'm sure I've heard it but can't remember where at the moment.

'Quia Respexit'...well it's o.k. I could say something about her trills , but nevermind. I unfortunately am way picky about Baroque singing having sung a lot of Bach, Handel and Mozart in my time.

Many people think that she sang better on Oceanborn and on Wishmanster than she did on the latter CDs, but in fact her classical technique on those CDs was so poor that she had to struggle thorugh the recording sessions and she never could perform certain tracks live. She was young and learning church music in the Sibelius Academy, had singing as a side topic, thus not having attended to full time training in classical singing, which she later did in Germany for three years. Obviously they had to correct some minor details in her singign with electronic means in the studio, but it was also Tuomas to blame because he had no clue about her range and limits at the time he composed those songs. AFAIK, on the FWTE-video some parts of her singing were overdubbed later with studio takes because she failed so bad in some parts on the live recording.

See, it's very interesting that you say that because one of the reasons that I enjoyed FWTE so much is that I was so impressed by how close the band performances were to the recorded tracks. I've been to quite a few gigs where it v difficult to tell what the orginal song was! Ah well..
 
Well, Tarja is missed by many, but Anette is a good singer... And with Marco by her side as an extraordinary vocalist, something very cool arises in this new album! I really like it! Anette is not a classical singer, but she has something to her voice. But, the only thing I regret about this new girl is that she is too quiet... :erk:

But, on the other hand, Nightwish was envisioned by Tuomas as a band similar to The Gathering, which means with a female vocalist who possesses a soft voice, which is something they now have... :)

They are still the old Nightwish, the only difference now is that the lead vocalist agrees with the original idea of the band! :headbang:

And, yes, Tarja is not as amazing singer now, in classical music, as she clearly was in Nightwish... Classic singing by itself does not suite her... But, obviously she does not see it... :lol:
 
@Seraph7, the band was and is phenomenal live, I've seen tham many times. But since they all are perfectionists, they didn't want to let any mistakes through on their first video. It doesn't mean that they overdubbed all the tracks, just some minor things were corrected, most of the songs on FWTE are as they came out live.

@LustfulAngel, no need to regret too much of Anette's "quiet" voice because it was more of a technical issue. Her vocals were mixed too quiet on the promo version. The actual CD will be the final mix of the CD, which Tuomas and Mikko Karmila (the mixing guru at Finnvox studios) put together after the early version had gone on the promo already. On it Anettes vocals are raised to the appropriate level and won't get buried under the orchestra and band's instruments. Tuomas just said in one of the lates interviews that he is very satisfied thet the final version hasn't leaked in the web. So, one month to go before we can have our final say about DPP.


Since this thread is supposed to be about the upcoming record, here's something on the topic:

The British veteran rock journalist Dave Ling wrote down his thoughts about the current situation in the Nightwish camp in his web diary after he visited the band's homebase last week and got to hear them rehearsing their set for the upcoming tour:

"Just returned home from a couple of very productive days spent with NIGHTWISH in Helsinki. After a terrifyingly early start on Wednesday morning, irrepressible band manager Ewo Rytkönen collected me from the airport and we sped off to guitarist Emppu Vuorinen's studio, 20 minutes or so outside of the city centre. I conducted a fascinating and unexpectedly candid interview with keyboard player/leader Tuomas Holopainen in which he confirmed my suspicion that 'Bye Bye Beautiful', from the new album 'Dark Passion Play', was inspired by the band's estranged former singer Tarja Turunen — famously sacked via open letter back in 2005. Included in its chorus are the lines: "Did you ever listen to what we played? / Did we get this far just to feel your hate? / You chose the long road but we'll be waiting." Oddly given the above, however, Holopainen explained that he has attempted to contact Turunen by text messages (without success) since the split, and that he hopes to re-establish friendship with her again some day in the future — though the band are perfectly happy with their new frontwoman, Anette Olzon.

"After the interview I was invited to sit back, crack open a can or two of Karhu beer and observe as the new-look NIGHTWISH ran through a large chunk of their upcoming live set. The instrumental players had rehearsed for the previous couple of weeks, but this was just the third time they'd all played with Olzon. I was impressed. Obviously, Anette's voice is very different to that of operatic diva Turunen, but she sings the old songs far better than I'd expected. According to Tuomas, the show will be a fairly equal split between numbers from 'Dark Passion Play' and the group's catalogue. It would be grossly unfair to give the game away regarding the song-list at such an early stage, but hearing Olzon's interpretation of 'Nemo' back-to-back with 'Eva' made the reasons for her recruitment immediately obvious. And their new take on the last album's standout cut 'Wish I Had An Angel' was absolutely rampant!

"Prior to yesterday afternoon's return flight to London, I did an interview with Olzon over lunch. She's a very confident and personable lady. Then again, given the fact that the single 'Amaranth' had just gone gold in Finland (commemorating sales of 5,000 copies) after just two days, NIGHTWISH have every reason to feel proud of the way they've bounced back from the rumpus with Ms Turunen."

Click here for Roadrunner's Nightwish e-card and listen legally to Amaranth and Bye Bye Beautiful.

Dark Passion Play is scheduled for release on September 28 via Nuclear Blast Records (Europe), September 26 via Spinefarm Records (Finland) and October 2 via Roadrunner Records (USA).
 
Third video in the works:
Radio Lapland, Aug. 30. 2007
Nightwish music video will be shot in Rovaniemi, Finland

- One of the most famous Finnish metalbands Nightwish will shoot their music video in Rovaniemi.
- The third video from the new Dark Passion Play-CD will br filmed in Rovaniemi in September-October.
- The band have hired Ilkka Immonen of Lapland Studio Oy as the producer.
The video will be directed by Tuomas "Stobe" Harju and it will be released in more than 40 countries.
- Dark Passion Play- album will be released at the end of next month in Finland.
It's their first release with Anette Olzon in the band.
- Lapland Studio Oy is a production company located in Rovaniemi, their clients are American and European game-. advertisement/tv- and movie companies. In addition the company works on their own productions and development projects.
 
Most probably yes, but where? There are a thousand and one channels in the USA, but how many of them play metal videos at all?

Obviously Roadrunner will be streaming Nightwish videos on their website. There seem to be a decent marketing campaign launched for DPP in the USA based on Tuomas's words: he revealed in one interview that RR is aiming in gold-record sales in the USA which means 500 000 copies sold. To achieve such high numbers need some aggressive marketing, something alike Nuclear Blast does in Europe with exellent results. It's also quite clear that RR try to push a song or two into movie soundtracks, but I really hope they would pick a few ranks better movies for co-operation than what we saw last time.
 
It's also quite clear that RR try to push a song or two into movie soundtracks, but I really hope they would pick a few ranks better movies for co-operation than what we saw last time.
I hope so...I think I'm one of 5 people who saw that movie :D

and gold here in the US would be an AMAZING accomplishment...I doubt they'll make it unless there is some sort of significant radio airplay.
 
Yeah, but I'm not putting my faith in Roadrunner. They have this pattern that seems to be repeating itself with other bands. They do all this promotion before the album comes out, really pump it up, and then when the album comes out, that's it, no more promotion. That seems to be happening with Within Temptation right now, when they could use Roadrunner's promotion the most (touring the U.S. in the next few weeks and all). The same seems to be happening to Dream Theater; I've seen little to no promotion for Systematic Chaos ever since it was released.
 
Seems very shortsighted on their part especially as they would be the first to complain if it was the other way round and the bands weren't doing their fair share to promote the album. I mean just look at the whole RR/ Nightwish situation ...
 
As Dark Passion Play's North American release date is closing Roadrunner.com has lifted Nightwish on the main page.

Roadrunner Recods Canada has also something about the upcoming release:
Equal parts epic metal and gothic symphony, Nightwish stand alone. They blend soaring keyboards and operatic vocals with shredding guitars and jagged rhythms for a style of cinematic, orchestral heavy music all their own. The Finnish quintet has remained a force in the European scene for the last decade, but with their second Roadrunner Records release Dark Passion Play, they are destined to captivate metal fans across the entire globe. Filling vocalist Tarja Turunen’s vacant spot with newcomer Anette Olzon, the band is now stronger than ever. They have also crafted a record that’s heavy, hypnotic and downright powerful.

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Even with the absence of Tarja, Nightwish has crafted an epic, infectious and potent sixth release in the form of Dark Passion Play. Tuomas Holopainen’s keys create huge melodies that are deep, gothic and sensual, while Emppu Vuorinen’s guitars hit with an urgent crunch. The record represents the culmination of the band’s evolution and success. It’s a dark, yet infectious journey, featuring all of the elements that fans love about Nightwish—from the symphonic keyboards to the divine melodies. At the forefront of the new music is Anette. Her voice hypnotizes with a diverse range, complementing both the metallic guitars and orchestral keys perfectly. The new songs are some of Nightwish’s most adventurous and powerful. Leadoff single “Bye Bye Beautiful” starts with a precise, calculated riff locked in with warm electronic keys. Then the song launches into vibrant vocal interplay between Anette and Marco with an incendiary and catchy chorus. “7 Days to the Wolves” features galloping guitars with swirling orchestrations and visual lyrics that captivate. On “Master Passion Greed,” epic riffs and keyboards create an inviting, yet intense embrace. Heavy guitars crescendo into an incredible vocal explosion. Meanwhile, “Amaranth” has a power metal rhythm that builds with a serious urgency.

However, Nightwish have further experimented, embracing their new singer’s immense talent and venturing beyond the norm. “Eva” highlights Anette’s versatility, allowing her voice to take center stage and simply soar. The ballad showcases ethereal keyboards and a hauntingly gorgeous chorus.

Ultimately, Nightwish have made a career out of breaking the rules. Their sound could never simply be categorized, and they have managed to continually evolve with each album. With their first U.S. tour with Anette this fall and Dark Passion Play out October 2nd, Nightwish are bound to secure their spot at the top.

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We'll as a Death Metal fan as my main core music Nightwish was allways something i would listen to to relax or enjoy something different..With Tarja there that was all i could do with..her Opera vocals kinda didnt belong in the Metalic music IMHO(I know Tarjaholics will sue me for saying that..i don't care) but with Anette now they're music is alot more nice and good to listen to..I myself Enjoyed Amarnth and Dark Passion Play alot more then any other Nightwish Album to the point of becoming a fan.
 
Tuomas has also always wanted to compose soundtracks for movies, hence his enthusiam towards using big orchestra and choir(s). If you think about it, the very first impact anyone gets from listenign to a Nightwish track, old or new, will be how big the sound is. Even on the first three records when they had no money to hire an orchestra, the distictive big sound of the band hits the listener like a sledgehammer. It'll be even more evident when you get to see tehm live. Very rare five-piece bands can match the overwhelming sound of early Nightwish, not to speak about the more recent output with a real orchestra. And by sound I don't mean decibels, but impression of the music and melodies in it.

For many musically uneducated people Tarja's classical singing became the clou of the band, but most times it only reflected the opinion of a musically illiterate person who couldn't hear the the music behind her poweful vocals. (I won't say her classical vocals, because I've been to Tarja's solo concert where she sung classical, and believe me, there is a difference!)

Personal tastes aside, clinical observing of the structures in Tuomas's compositions from the musical and technical point of view will easily reveal us that we are not dealing with ordinary consumer music. Calling Nw pop(pish) really doesn't make any justice, but only shows the critics' ignorance and lack of deeper knowledge in music. Pop is something easy listening on the background while doing something more important, it doesn't take a brain to observe details or understand the lyrics (if they make any sense at all) and the song usually vanishes from the listener as soon as the last tones disappear, without leaving anything to recall later.

Dark Passion Play is a something you rather want to play in quality player, concentrate on and work through several times, preferably with lyric sheet in your hands before it'll fully open to you. Anette is an excellent singer who can really sing in many various styles and express deep emotions when needed. But she isn't Tarja, she is Anette and there is a difference in overall singing style between the two. But not in quality, no way.

Also, there are so many details in the music, that even after numerous listens one will discover something new on every spin. That is the thing which separetes consumer pop from more sophisticated music.

Anyone's personal taste and musical preferences will be sources for a completely different story.

:headbang:

I complitely agree with you! :headbang:

Tarja is a great singer. I miss a little the "dramatic" feeling she was able to give to the songs, her way of interpretating some NW songs..However I like Anette! She's different but good. Actually I think she's even better than Tarja in some softer parts. Personally I prefer when she uses her softer voice..which , in my opinion, fits perfectly with certain parts on the new album.

I think what made Tarja special was the unique combination (at that time, now not anymore) beetween her outstanding vocals and metal music. But ,as Enigma said, she was not really good at the beginning of her studies..at least not good as she is now.
The music however has always been the most important thing for me..Personally I've always paid more attention to the whole song (vocals, music, lyrics, details) . In my opinion Nightwish music has not changed that much with this Dark Passion Play..there's always the same power and emotion. :)

About Tarja..I don't know..I've heard her new single "I walk alone" . It's not that she's using too much her classical/operatic voice (maybe a bit in the chorus) . She sings pretty much like she was singing in Once. Even the music is nothing special..a ballad with orchestra and symphonic feeling (she recorded it with people working with Hans Zimmer in L.A.) .
I mean..I thought her main goal was becoming a classical (or opera) singer, that's why she was not happy to be a metal singer..she wasn't born to be Nightwish singer. I have the impression that ,with her new album "My Winter Storm" , she's going to do some kind of softer Nightwish with some classical/pop influences.
Hopefully I'm wrong..we'll see.

@Enigma..so they are shoting a 3rd video in LApaland? Interesting :) . It's not Bye Bye Beautiful right? I think that one was directed by Antti Jokinen. Maybe they are going to release an other single after BBB.


What do you guys think about this "Bye bye beautiful"..I mean there's a huge discussion concerning BBB lyrics, people think they are too harsh and Tuomas should get over the split ..and so on.

ps: I'm sorry for my english. I know it's terrible.
 
^^I think Bye Bye Beautiful is one of the best songs of the Album.

Tomas allready said a few times he has the most respec to Tarja..to be honest? i think Nightwish put the split way back with this album..They don't sound like a band with problems at all.
 
^^I think Bye Bye Beautiful is one of the best songs of the Album.

Tomas allready said a few times he has the most respec to Tarja..to be honest? i think Nightwish put the split way back with this album..They don't sound like a band with problems at all.

Yeah I agree :) . I also love Bye Bye Beautiful and I don't really find the lyrics (actually what we understood about the lyrics) SO harsh (well they are not sweet words for sure but I can't feel hate) .
There are some people (of course mostly trjaholics :p ) who think Tuomas should get over the split..lol