David Bendeth
- Thread starter Machinated
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....apparently as many as 20 snare samples on the underoath..
i actually prefer the mixes he did on the latest emery to underoath, a little more open. this guy is a genious....some of the stuff going on in the paramore tracks is unbelievable
i actually prefer the mixes he did on the latest emery to underoath, a little more open. this guy is a genious....some of the stuff going on in the paramore tracks is unbelievable
Oog, I've really tried to restrain myself on these types of threads over the past few months, but I really feel the need to comment on this - how is keeping a song under 4 minutes (or any length) inherently a good thing? Sure, there are definitely songs that need to be trimmed (IMO most of DT's discography, and I'm referring to more than one DT
), there are short songs that rule ("Blind Eye Halo" immediately pops into mind), but then there are also long songs that I wouldn't want a second trimmed off of (most of Opeth's discography; my current obsession, the song "Holographic Universe", etc.), so what is it about a song's length that by itself can determine its quality?Or is it simply so it has the maximum chance of being quickly swallowed by the impatient masses with short attention spans for music and raking in the cash? In which case, I just can't imagine how someone who truly loves and appreciates music (not to mention has a talent for it, as you clearly do, judging from your originals I've heard) can feel that way...
GarethSE
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it takes just as much talent to write a 3 minute pop song as it does to write a 10 minute metal epic.
if you can write a pop track that's quite as perfect as some of the stuff off the paramore album then i will eat my cigarettes, which probably wouldnt be very nice.
if you can write a pop track that's quite as perfect as some of the stuff off the paramore album then i will eat my cigarettes, which probably wouldnt be very nice.
xFkx
gain induction
Well there is a certain aesthetic to a "pure form" 3 minute single that i personally admire. What's more i'm willing to say that making said single requires the same amount of experience and talent that is required to make a 6 minute metal masterpiece, just the focus is placed on different elements.
As a graphic designer I can relate it to some TV Ads. Sure, you can describe them as short movies that make you buy stuff, they also have a limited time limit in which they must work. But some of them are little pieces of magnificent art, done by a highly talented team of CG artists that outdo themselves to push the visual/motion graphic boundries to the limit, one can appriciate that, even if the whole purpose of their existance is trite
As a graphic designer I can relate it to some TV Ads. Sure, you can describe them as short movies that make you buy stuff, they also have a limited time limit in which they must work. But some of them are little pieces of magnificent art, done by a highly talented team of CG artists that outdo themselves to push the visual/motion graphic boundries to the limit, one can appriciate that, even if the whole purpose of their existance is trite
I know Gareth, I'm not really getting into the whole validity (or lack thereof) of pop argument, I've done that enough in the past, I just take exception to this seemingly mandatory imposition of a time limit on a song, even though there are tons of songs that I'd consider pop metal that are 4-5 minutes that I wouldn't want a second taken off of (a lot of Soilwork and SS's disco, mainly). But for the record, I still usually find most of that uber-short pop to be quite substanceless besides a catchy chorus that gets old REAL fast, but like I said, I don't wanna debate this - just want it on the record lest there was any doubt on my stance (which I of course acknowledge is highly unlikely 
)
)
Oog, I've really tried to restrain myself on these types of threads over the past few months, but I really feel the need to comment on this - how is keeping a song under 4 minutes (or any length) inherently a good thing? Sure, there are definitely songs that need to be trimmed (IMO most of DT's discography, and I'm referring to more than one DT
Or is it simply so it has the maximum chance of being quickly swallowed by the impatient masses with short attention spans for music and raking in the cash? In which case, I just can't imagine how someone who truly loves and appreciates music (not to mention has a talent for it, as you clearly do, judging from your originals I've heard) can feel that way...
i think saying that all songs should inherently be under 4 minutes is a brash statement. its completely dependant on the music at hand. with a lot of david bendeths stuff, chart success, radio plays, commercial success is pretty critical and the songs need to be completely to the point with all the fat trimmed.
opeth for example arent a band that falls into that category and their songs should still have the fat trimmed, but need the long songs to get their point across.
its completely dependent on the band and music.
i think there is just as much to gain from music created for "the impatient masses with short attention spans", as there is from cleverly constructed longer metal songs. of course they are completely different genres, but again there is different focus. i think there is something certainly to gain from commercial music (to steer completely clear of it is VERY close minded IMO), and thats not to say you will enjoy it as much as your favourite bands but its worth remembering that these bands have THE TOP people working on them, and have serious pressure on the quality of songs being released.
theres so much more depth to it than i am capable of typing, but hopefully you see my point....
Fair enough, but as I mentioned in my second post (I guess you were typing your response when I made it) I just find so much of that to be very shallow and revolve around the immediately catchy chorus (and not much else), and thus find it doesn't have much staying power with me (from a strictly music-listening perspective, not a "oh well this is an admirable construction of trimmed pop, what a fine specimen" perspective), but there are always exceptions!
GarethSE
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J.DavisNJ
\m/
My buddies were always into Paramore, but I dismissed them like the close minded dick I was lol. I'm listening to "Riot!" now. Awesome shit!
-Joe
-Joe
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
If you think Paramore/Underoath/Emery are shallow and revolve around immediacy and catchy choruses, then please post your great, deep, evolving, never-boring metal opus. These songs we're discussing in here... if they neglected verses completely, do you really think they'd do well? A catchy chorus means jack-shit if it isn't supported by good material on all sides.
Seriously though, your tirade on pop music is getting about as old as your need to post in every thread, regardless of how useful your response may/may not be. If you don't have anything to add to the thread but your personal vendettas, I'd advise not posting at all.
jauernis
Member
A cut and paste from gearslutz David Bendeth talking about Phobia:
This record started in Wilkes Barre PA in Bens basement. I did pre pro there for about three weeks. Each song was carefully rehearsed and pre recorded for arrangement...
note: (do NOT go to Wilkes Barre for fun, ever)
Phobia was kind of a transition record sonically for me and my team. We recorded the record in an old church on a lake here in Western NJ.
Thought it was a good idea as it was a central location for the band and our team.
There was a lot of gear that we had brought with us and a lot of gear in the studio itself. The console was an SSL K series. It was pretty well brand new.
The studio really did not have a live area to it that had any real ambience, for the first few days I was in full freak-out mode, I did not think the record was going to sound that big. We really took our time getting sounds, nothing went down without being really scrutinized sonically and part wise.
For the vocals we used a Rode Classic 11 and and Apex 460 mod'ed through a Telefunken V76 and for the guitars we used Neve, 1073,1081, an API through V72 for most songs.
For guitars I used an Epiphone Les Paul, a Gibson Les Paul Baritone, an Epiphone 335, 1966 Telecaster smugglers, and a PRS. All the guitars were hot rodded and pickups were customized.
Amp wise I had a Marshall triple lead, a Soldano and a Randall modual amp. For clean we had a vox ac30 and a 59 Fender Deluxe. Cabinets were Marshall orange backs.
Everything was tuned to A# and it was a real bitch keeping it in tune.
We tuned every 8 bars!
Bass was a custom made Fodera 5 string and an Ampeg vintage SVT.
The record was made in a strange way as we finished each song as we went along, so it seemed to take forever. I remember we were still recording the back half and I heard Diary of Jane on the radio! That sure put a boot on my ass to finish it. It went straight from Ted Jensen at Sterling to Press at the plant,and it was out within a month of finishing it in the street.
This record started in Wilkes Barre PA in Bens basement. I did pre pro there for about three weeks. Each song was carefully rehearsed and pre recorded for arrangement...
note: (do NOT go to Wilkes Barre for fun, ever)
Phobia was kind of a transition record sonically for me and my team. We recorded the record in an old church on a lake here in Western NJ.
Thought it was a good idea as it was a central location for the band and our team.
There was a lot of gear that we had brought with us and a lot of gear in the studio itself. The console was an SSL K series. It was pretty well brand new.
The studio really did not have a live area to it that had any real ambience, for the first few days I was in full freak-out mode, I did not think the record was going to sound that big. We really took our time getting sounds, nothing went down without being really scrutinized sonically and part wise.
For the vocals we used a Rode Classic 11 and and Apex 460 mod'ed through a Telefunken V76 and for the guitars we used Neve, 1073,1081, an API through V72 for most songs.
For guitars I used an Epiphone Les Paul, a Gibson Les Paul Baritone, an Epiphone 335, 1966 Telecaster smugglers, and a PRS. All the guitars were hot rodded and pickups were customized.
Amp wise I had a Marshall triple lead, a Soldano and a Randall modual amp. For clean we had a vox ac30 and a 59 Fender Deluxe. Cabinets were Marshall orange backs.
Everything was tuned to A# and it was a real bitch keeping it in tune.
We tuned every 8 bars!
Bass was a custom made Fodera 5 string and an Ampeg vintage SVT.
The record was made in a strange way as we finished each song as we went along, so it seemed to take forever. I remember we were still recording the back half and I heard Diary of Jane on the radio! That sure put a boot on my ass to finish it. It went straight from Ted Jensen at Sterling to Press at the plant,and it was out within a month of finishing it in the street.
GarethSE
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And as for Underoath, if you slag them off, you clearly haven't sat and fucking LISTENED to any of their music
i made the assumption that they sucked before erkan got me into their most recent album and i realised how wrong i was
and paramore? hell, hayley williams is reason enough to listen to them, disregarding the fact that they're awesome.
i made the assumption that they sucked before erkan got me into their most recent album and i realised how wrong i was
and paramore? hell, hayley williams is reason enough to listen to them, disregarding the fact that they're awesome.
Never heard much Underoath. Am listening to the latest album on Spotify now. Not my thing at all but it doesn't offend me.
Loads going on drum wise in terms of panning and ambiance. Sounds like Adam got some good room mic sounds for him to play with.
The only thing I'm not digging is the cymbals seem to do a huge amount of ducking and peaking. I don't know if that's coming from compressing the room mics or the mastering.
I defo prefer the Paramore mix. The snare on that is pretty much identical to the Underoath snare.
Loads going on drum wise in terms of panning and ambiance. Sounds like Adam got some good room mic sounds for him to play with.
The only thing I'm not digging is the cymbals seem to do a huge amount of ducking and peaking. I don't know if that's coming from compressing the room mics or the mastering.
I defo prefer the Paramore mix. The snare on that is pretty much identical to the Underoath snare.
yeah, quite similar sounds
i think the underoath mix is a definitely on the compressed side (A BIT!!!), but thats kind of its sound.
check out the emery stuff for something a bit easier on that front, still compressed a lot though.
the paramore drums are actually surprisingly natural despite the samples. with bendeth its as much about the mix as it is performance, editing, song writing, arranging etc
i think the underoath mix is a definitely on the compressed side (A BIT!!!), but thats kind of its sound.
check out the emery stuff for something a bit easier on that front, still compressed a lot though.
the paramore drums are actually surprisingly natural despite the samples. with bendeth its as much about the mix as it is performance, editing, song writing, arranging etc
Yes yes Jeff, this old schtick again - FTR I haven't really heard any of those bands (nor was I commenting on them specifically), I was more speaking generally about a lot of pop I've heard, and commenting on the specific issue of song length.
EDIT: Ok, so maybe I did get a bit ranty about my opinions on the subject in general, specifying that there are always exceptions - sorry it offended you!
I'm metal as fuck *flex*...but as a musician I cannot deny how amazing riot is. There, I said it. Some of the best vocals I've ever heard too. Still, I only listen to it late at night with the shifty eyes going over my shoulder incase someone catches me *viking helmet*
