Dead Heart As A Concept Album And Why I Like It.....

[RETIREDTrapped]

I think Trapped is damned by the fact that he knows how to play music and/or because he is a sound engineer, due to this he can understand more things and that’s why he demands so much. The rest of us are satisfied with less.

That is partly true, i can't just sit down and 'listen' to a peice of music, i have to listen to what each part is doing an analyze each part. But this is what makes me a musician. "The rest of us are satisfied with less": That is bullshit, and you know it. POE wasn't less, and DNB wasn't less, it's only DHIADW that is 'less'. Think of it that way.

Being complex just for point of being complex is sill - part of the reason why 'Progressive' metal will never become my favourite genre

First things first, you are mistaken about progressive metal. You are talking about technical metal, like watchtower and spiral architect, and cynic. 'PROGRESSIVE' metal is music such as opeth, or Metallica's "...And justice for all". Progressive metal doesn't refer to songs consisting of 19/4.5 time. (ouch, 19/4.5 time, that would be a bitch to play.)

Secondly, I was meaning that nevermore is capable of challenging the 'musical' listeners and musicians out there WITHOUT playing in 19/4.5 time (ha ha), seriously, they are capable of so much more that a I, IV, V, chord progression in 4/4 time. They are much better musicians than that, shame on you nevermore. I was meaning 'more complicated', as in 'POE' complicated, POE isn't over-technical bullshit, but it was challenging and interesting, and surprising to listen to. But DHIADW is not, even the non-musicians should be able to hear this.

technicality isn't the only mark of a good or great album

I agree with you, for gods' sake, i LIKE Sentenced's new releases! Your understanding is misconstrued... don't be confused my freind. I listen to nevermore because it is good music that challenges me, and incites me to think. Nevermore have always challenged their listener, but DHIADW is a cd that could have been released by any other power-metal band, and that is all it is, straight power-metal. Iced Earth could have realised this album, or Vanishing Point could have released this album... I just didn't expect this from nevermore. (get back to the point, damn you Trapped!!). I didn't say that an album has to be extremely technical to be good, an album has to be interesting, refreshing and challenging. Lets face it, DHIADW is just boring-old Power Metal that could pass for an ICED EARTH cd any-day. (with the exception of WD on vocals, don't get me wrong, he's my favourite vocalist and lyricist, it isn't his fault that i don't like DHIADW)

It may sound like Demonic, but is that a bad thing?

Yes. Yes it is.

Is it a bad thing that -both- metallica and megadeth are now 'radio freindly' pop-rock??

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

but for fucks sake trapped, metallica -or even- iced earth? cmon, u know better. these guys (nvrmr) really like metal and being different. this has been shown by their previous artworks

Sorry Metalized, i know you've stuck-up for me before, you're a cool guy, but i have to argue with you on that.

You say that "these guys (nvrmr) really like metal and being different. this has been shown by their previous artworks", and i totally agree with you. But do you STILL support metallica and their (really realy bad!!) music simply because ...and justice for all was a good album??

...For fuck's sake Metalized, open your eyes. Yes, nevermore HAVE shown that they like metal, and they like being different, but you yourself said it: In their PREVIOUS artworks. NOT in DHAIDW.

Nevermore have no-where even closely done the amount of damage that metallica have done, don't get me wrong. They are no-where even close to 'The black album'............. YET.

I will go out and buy the new Nevermore album when it is released, and i am hoping with all my soul that it surprises me and challenges my ears. I am just not excited about the new release, simply because i was let down so badly by DHIADW.

Nevermore owe me Nothing. Nevermore ow no one anything. Being a metal band, and releasing albums like POE and DNB shows that they don't listen to what other people say and what they want them to do. I am not asking anything of nevermore, it is just that i have fallen in love with this band, and they have taken a direction that has made me think-twice about this love i have for them.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

...And now for Iced Earth!!

Horror Show. First of all, what a stupid name for an album, and what a stupid concept for an album. The lyrics on this Iced Earth release mean absolutely nothing, they have shown us in the past that they are capable of much deeper and meaningful words. The horror-movie lyrics on Horror Show mean nothing more than the lyrics from Slayer's 'Hell Awaits', or Death's 'Scream Bloody Gore'.

It is great that some of you have found something to like about Horror Show, i just haven't found anything worthwhile about the album myself. I have only found things to dislike about the album (like the lyrics for starters)...

There is some decent riffs on this album, but no decent songs. Take 'Dracula' for example, this is one of the worst peices on the cd, but it also has one of the best riffs on the cd (when i gets heavy, right after the 'do you beleive in love' bullshit). THAT heavy riff is DEFINATELY an iced earth riff. But what about the start of the song?? WHAT THE HELL IS WITH THAT??

 

[jimbobhickville]

Interesting thoughts. I didn't mean to post anything to attack you; I apologize if it came across that way. I can respect your opinions, even though I disagree with some of them. If everyone had the same opinion, the world would be awfully boring.

I agree the lyrics weren't all too great on Horror Show, but lyrics are usually my last consideration. For me, I listen to drums, then bass, then guitar, then vocals, then lyrics, when I break down an album. Some albums, however, gain my attention and love without being excellent in any particular area. Consider Lefay; they're music isn't very complex or technically proficient, but I still really like their CDs. I don't know Sentenced, but it sounds like a similar situation for you.

Music is a funny thing, for me. Sometimes I love something for its shear brilliance (Spastic Ink, Watchtower), sometimes for it's aggression (Overkill), sometimes for it's atmosphere (After Forever), and sometimes I just can't explain it. Sometimes I recognize something as being great, musically, but I still don't like it (Beatles, Led Zepplin).

For me, DHIADW was the most easily accessible Nevermore album. It and PoE were the only ones I loved on first listen. DNB is much more dense and technical, but it took me a couple listens to really appreciate its brilliance. I can see why you could be disappointed for exactly the same reason that I liked it, though: it is easily accessible.

I didn't mean to imply that you only liked technical metal; I should have been more clear on that. I still think you're a bit harsh on DHIADW, but hey, that's your opinion. I can't fault you for that. Most people can't understand why I don't like Queensryche (it's because Geoff Tate's vocals are annoying, to me).

And, BTW, I don't just accept and love anything released by Nevermore. I downloaded the whole CD and listened to it several times before I decided to purchase it. I do that with nearly every CD I purchase anymore, and I rule out lots of CDs in the process.

Those are my thoughts; none are meant to belittle others opinions or to attack anyone. If they have been construed as such, I apologize in advance.

 

[[KOTNO]Narrot]

But DHIADW is not, even the non-musicians should be able to hear this.

well i am a musician (though i am a really bad one) and i have to say that DNB is imo way better then DHIADW because it'S more epic. DHIADW contains songs. just songs! a nice intro then a verse refrain verse refrain solo refrain...at least something like that!
i think you would have liked DHIADW if you hadn'T expect soemthing like DNB or POE!
i agree to you points on HS...the lyrics are redicilous...the artwork doesn'T rock...the whole theme is boring me to death...(btw: im-ho-tep grows each time i heat it...). the songs are not that good and seems to be unthorough written...the cd is ok...but it is nothing special!

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Ah, narrot, dude, that was exactly my point about DHIADW (i can't work out wether you were supporting me are shooting me down...??)

anyway!

The point that i was trying to make was that DHIADW is just a collection of SONGS, it isn't a journey like the other albums. You just proved my point that Nevermore have NOT created a journey, they have done what every single other band in the world does, created a bunch of boring songs, made up of an intro, a verse, a chorus, a verse, a chorus, a solo, a chorus, and then an outtro. Nevermore have NEVER just created songs, there has always been a path that their peices of music have taken. Not so with DHIADW.

It's good to see that someone share's my view on HS...!

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Consider Lefay; they're music isn't very complex or technically proficient

I really love LEFAY. I am deeply saddened by their break up. I love their earlier 'Morgana-Lefay' stuff aswell as SOS and Seventh seal.

You see, Lefay still take you on a journey, and they surprise you with each turn. My point wasn't that something has to be technical to be good. It was that it has to take you somewhere, but DHIADW takes you on no more of a journey that a Britney Spear's CD. And i mean that too.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Queensryche.

I have never even HEARD them before. Every man and his pet-donkey seems to like Queensryche, but no-one has ever said anything to entice me to listen to them.

Hows that for odd eh?

 

[jimbobhickville]

Originally posted by Trapped
...DHIADW takes you on no more of a journey that a Britney Spear's CD. And i mean that too.

Ouch. I think that made your point very clear. I am starting to see where you're coming from. Now I can understand why you don't like Horror Show, either. I don't dislike albums that are only songs, as long as I like the songs, so that is where my opinion differs. Thanks for clarifying your point.

Morgana Lefay are really good as well. I have all their non-compilation/live CDs except Symphony of the Damned because I got the Lefay remake of it.

So, considering your opinion, do you dislike the new Testament CD? It consists of remakes of songs off their first 2 CDs. Or do you make an exception because of the unique nature of the album (being a compilation, but re-recorded)? Just curious, not trying to mock; I'm still trying to decide whether I like it.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

I actually haven't heard the new testament album. I really like testament, but they are like a machine gun, some bullets hit right on target, but others go totally left-field...

 

[Battle Angel]

ALL NEVERMORE ALBUMS ROCK! THEY HAVE NO CRAP SONGS!!!

Keep in mind I'm just a biased little Nevermore fan who thinks that they can do no wrong.

Heh.

Angel

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

You don't even deserve a flaming, angel.

Do you still support metallica? yeah, i guess you probably do.







-ouch.

 

[ZANEX]

As the original starter of this thread I think I'm entitled to reply. Trapped, I do see your points of Dead Heart being simplified and just a collection of songs. However, I'm not a sound engineer but I do know a little bit about guitar effects, pedals, bass compressors, overdrives, drum triggers, voice harmonizers, and various other studio tricks such as overdubs and layering vocals and guitars but I'm not as informed as you are and I respect your replies because basically, "you know your shit when it comes to music." Iced Earth really hasn't impressed me (Scaffer and Barlow are talented but sound like rehashed Maiden and Priest to Me) and I think Judas Priest have already touched upon Jack "The Ripper". As a matter of fact, IE did a cover of this for a Century Media Priest tribute so why they do another song about it on Horror Show is beyond me. As for Queensryche and going on musical journeys, may I suggest listening to their albums The Warning, Rage For Order, and their masterpiece Operation Mindcrime. These albums have taken me on musical journeys just like Death's ITP, Symbolic, SOP, and Control Denied's Fragile Art...., Nevermore's POE, DNB, IM, and Fates Warning's No Exit.

ZANEX "I AM THE DOG"

 

[[KOTNO]Narrot]

Ah, narrot, dude, that was exactly my point about DHIADW (i can't work out wether you were supporting me are shooting me down...??)

i am supporting you in all your points except that DHIADW isn't a good album. all your critics are right and i agree to them but i still love that album.

i think "journey-albums" are way more impressiv than "song-albums". but: DHIADW is a good song-album which contains only good songs and HS is a bad one which contains two good songs and much avarage...

ahhhhh....i remember these days of Night of the Stormrider! what an epic album...i love it still!

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

ahhhhh....i remember these days of Night of the Stormrider! what an epic album...i love it still!

...I also remember the days of "...and justice for all"... but long gone are they...!

 

[Battle Angel]

What the fuck?

You missed the point entirely dude, jeez... learn to take a joke.

I was just kidding.

Anyway, I do find your points to be quite valid and I see why you don't like it. Personally I love DHIADW... of course it may not be no Politics but I enjoy it nevertheless.

Angel

 

[metalized]

enough said about two above the average groups: metallica and iced earth. narrot (hi, dude) is quite right about his song/journey album theory. and also i agree that dhiadw is quite a simple album, but i love it!!!!