dealing with difficult band members
- Thread starter jrt12
- Start date
Sorry, there's WAY too much stuff here for me to read all of it - but a HUGE +1 to establishing yourself as the clear leader in your band, that's what I've always done (I get everyone together, I write almost all of the music, etc.), so if someone is ever half-assing it, you KNOW you have the power to send 'em packing.
Felix Neumann
Member
That´s it, but sometimes it´s the problem to find a good singer or drummer. And a good drummer is SO DAMN important imo. It´s out of question, I´m the one who write all songs, make the productions and even play all fuckin´Instruments on nearly every song, so I make the decision. But it´s not that easy for me to throw someone out, you know? I wanna play live and I´m unfortunately not a one man army
Chryst Krispies
Vanilla Gorilla
Here's my take on fun vs. work. I've heard this comment a lot from various people in bands. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about having a relaxed envorinment, but sometimes making good music is work. Nowadays when I hear someone say, "If it starts to feel like work, I'm out" I can't help but wonder if they are going to be a lazy worthless sack of shit. Is he going to cry when we try to solidify a song arrangement? Or maybe he'll bail when we try and make him quad-track guitars.
I guess what I'm saying is, if someone says that and they're a kickass musician, you might not have anything to worry about. If they say that, but their skills are questionable, you know they will not be putting in much "work" to get any better. I think it's safe to say that the majority of musician's out there have NO IDEA how much work it takes to get 5 dudes in a band to play tight enough to make a kickass recording.
See I agree with you , but what I was saying is , I personally won't ever be in a band like that because I like music as a source of fun and to make me feel better. All you guys, or at least the majority, come across to me like your doing it as if you were working for some company and you're the "CEO" or something RUNNING the band as if it were a jobsite. That to me sounds like it would suck for all parties involved. I want to be genuine friends with these people, not coworkers.
If it IS your job that's one thing but if your in some weekend gig kinda band or you're "trying to make it," and your sucking all the fun out of it from the get go, that sounds like a shitty time and I wouldn't wanna be a part of that. As soon as money comes into the picture, all hell will break loose too, cause motherfuckers are shady and will try and rob each other or whatever.
I'd rather just enjoy myself. That's all I meant. I understand some dudes on here have bands that they put a lot of work into and that takes a ton of effort and time and I respect everyone on here that does that
Felix Neumann
Member
I think that´s the point...Work attitudes clashes with fun attitudes and this don´t match! Just like in my band.
smy1
Member
The fun starts when you hit the stage, first 5 rows full of chicks and people from far as Teheran/Iran write you because they love your stuff and you play all over the world.
And the good part is: if musicians know they are in it just for the gigs, then they relax, get paid, have a good time.
Then everyone is having fun.
Of course I am having a lot of fun in the studio producing the music, too, but I don't really give a shit if someone else is involved or not.
And the good part is: if musicians know they are in it just for the gigs, then they relax, get paid, have a good time.
Then everyone is having fun.
Of course I am having a lot of fun in the studio producing the music, too, but I don't really give a shit if someone else is involved or not.
That´s it, but sometimes it´s the problem to find a good singer or drummer. And a good drummer is SO DAMN important imo. It´s out of question, I´m the one who write all songs, make the productions and even play all fuckin´Instruments on nearly every song, so I make the decision. But it´s not that easy for me to throw someone out, you know? I wanna play live and I´m unfortunately not a one man army
Yeah, I hear ya dude, and I can imagine the prospect of change is a shitty one - but if you can't see things getting any better with these douchebags, maybe it is time to move on; you never know, you could find an amazing drummer who has been your next door neighbor this whole time and you never knew! My point is, it's not worth staying in a shitty relationship because you don't know what you'd do without it (wait, we're still talking about band stuff here, right?
)And Krispies, I gotta disagree dude, as dontletmedrown says, making good music takes work; that's why I love modern metal so much more than a lot of old-school thrash or punk; to me, that really just sounds like a bunch of guys throwing half-assed songs together for the sake of getting out there and playing and getting drunk and etc., rather than really making an effort to write (and be able to play) good, creative music
And yeah, the fun is when all that work pays off, when you get on stage and rock the house - AND when people listen to your recorded music and can still appreciate it (so many bands bring the excitement live, but when the music is immortalized in a recording everyone realizes what a snooze-fest it is)
Jaymz
Stymphalian Productions
Notuern
Bloody vaginal belch
- Oct 20, 2007
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Well, i think you have to work on making it fun.
How odd that now may sound, at least ive found that to be a reality.
The biggest problem ive ever had in a band was when we had this guy being a "dictator" over the band.
We got really far in a short time, but he was so strict that we never had any fun on our rehearsals, which ended up with us thinking it was just fucking boring to play our own music, and we started to clash together with yelling and stuff.
And what i mean by working on making it fun, is like many other have proposed in this thread: The band comes up with a set of rules that we all can agree on, and then the band needs to decide what responsibilities they have with in the band, and when that is done, you don't have to worry about fighting, just writing songs and having fun!
wow... thanks to all of you for jumping on this thread and providing insight. i knew that others had to have dealt with this before. and i'm doing my best to not just go with my first reaction (which is fire them) and make sure i'm making the best decision.
i'm sure you all know how hard it is to find someone you work well with. I spent 3 years looking for the right members (people who shared a similar vision for creating music) before i gave up looking, and just focused on writing. I write the music, lyrics, play enough guitar to get the song draft down, do some programming and basic recording of the tracks. so yes, it is my project... then i found a guitarist who had influences and style that really added to the project, brought a diff feel to the tracks that i'm really excited about.
now even though its just the two of us, i konw how hard it is to find the right match of people to work with. so i've found a way to push the project forward (found a great session drummer, researching and picking the right producer, all everything else in between). but like someone mentioned earlier... you still find yourself suggesting everything, fleshing things out. they never seem to bring something new to the table on their own, its always instigated by me.
so... i actually DONT want to fire them, but i'm getting sick of still being a one man show. i've had the "gut check" talk several times now and like i said, it seems like every few months i come back to the same spot where i feel like an ultimatum is necessary. so i think i'm gonna read throguh all these posts again and marinate in these diff points for awhile. once again, thanks for all your input/experience. this place is such a great resource!
i'm sure you all know how hard it is to find someone you work well with. I spent 3 years looking for the right members (people who shared a similar vision for creating music) before i gave up looking, and just focused on writing. I write the music, lyrics, play enough guitar to get the song draft down, do some programming and basic recording of the tracks. so yes, it is my project... then i found a guitarist who had influences and style that really added to the project, brought a diff feel to the tracks that i'm really excited about.
now even though its just the two of us, i konw how hard it is to find the right match of people to work with. so i've found a way to push the project forward (found a great session drummer, researching and picking the right producer, all everything else in between). but like someone mentioned earlier... you still find yourself suggesting everything, fleshing things out. they never seem to bring something new to the table on their own, its always instigated by me.
so... i actually DONT want to fire them, but i'm getting sick of still being a one man show. i've had the "gut check" talk several times now and like i said, it seems like every few months i come back to the same spot where i feel like an ultimatum is necessary. so i think i'm gonna read throguh all these posts again and marinate in these diff points for awhile. once again, thanks for all your input/experience. this place is such a great resource!
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
You had a typo there
On that note. If people don't understand and you were so honorous to give them several chances whilst speaking the clearest language there is, just get rid of those who block the road or, if you don't want to force yourself into a position where you would have to kick somebody out just do exactly that with yourself. get out of the band. just be fair and honest to them and reason why you have to do it and if they aren't completely self-seeking they'll understand.
It's better to make a painful break than draw out the agony.
No, some things are improved by unclear communication, when it's handled correctly... perhaps I just watched too many Fellini films for my own good.
Jeff
Jeff
abyssofdreams
knows what you think.
Hmm, I can't think of any example where unclear communication improved situations directly. I mean...indirectly, yeah, if unclear communication results in a split of a band and gets together again in a different constellation then yeah, in that case you're right but I'm not sure if you meant it that way. Because actually there would be no (un)clear communication. Just communication but ahhhh...my head is exploding
Felix Neumann
Member
Yeah, I hear ya dude, and I can imagine the prospect of change is a shitty one - but if you can't see things getting any better with these douchebags, maybe it is time to move on; you never know, you could find an amazing drummer who has been your next door neighbor this whole time and you never knew! My point is, it's not worth staying in a shitty relationship because you don't know what you'd do without it (wait, we're still talking about band stuff here, right?
You´re absolutley right, dude
It´s like a shitty relationship directly before divorcing..haha but maybe it´s easier to find a woman, as a singer who 1. can sing really good 2. has no typical rockstar behavior 3. and is good to work with All work and no play makes jack a dull boyAll work and no play makes jack a dull boyAll work and no play makes jack a dull boyAll work and no play makes jack a dull boyAll work and no play makes jack a dull boyAll work and no play makes jack a dull boy I'm just gonna bash your brains in- I'm gonna bash'em right the fuck in
Erkan
mr-walker.bandcamp
EXACTLY like in my "band". I say "band", because we are no longer a band, but we still rent a rehearsal place and keep our stuff there, but we never ever play anymore.
But yeah, it was like this for a long time in my band. I did 90% of all the work that actually turned into something. When the others tried to make something, it just sounded utter crap and it was only the one who made it who liked it. So towards the end of the band, I went into a stage where I was stressing myself to make music that pleased all band members. Thus, I forgot what music really meant to me, as it was more like a job, a job where I had to just spew out music that fit all. Before this "stage", we had a singer who I could really work well with. He had everything you could ask for when it comes to a band member, but we kicked him/he quit (sort of.. at the same time), because he had so many personal issues, some psychological, some social. After he was gone from our band, I felt like it was up to me to carry the weight for the band to go on but when I noticed that they couldn't play the songs they claimed they liked, it became clear to me that they had no fucking ounce of motivation in them what so ever. So I stopped and let the band fall, and that is exactly what has happened. Today, the band is shit a pile of shit, waiting to be disintegrated.
I still have hope, to find someone someday, that shares my passion for music. And we will make some awesome freakin' music. There are many people here on the forum who seems to be really nice working with, but internet collaboration is so clumsy
Anyway, how to solve these problems is a bit tricky. When a situation in a band is like in my or Mulder's case, it's pretty lost I think. If you are the one who is doing all the work, who puts all the effort in, you should immediately stop. Not to be a dick, but to test your band. If nobody else picks up from where you left, and tries to recover the band, it's obvious they deserve to fall.
I don't know about you guys but I feel like I'm better off alone than with a bunch of unmotivated fucks.
QV
Member
Interesting Discussion. I would sum it up like this: the ones that "work" will inevitably compensate for the ones who want to have "fun", this leads to more "fun" for the latter and more "work" for the former. The ones who have "fun" will rarely understand what "work" it took in the first place to get things where they are. Often being the first ones to complain. Just keep a cool head and do what's best for the band.
PS
It's funny to see only one "fun" guy here and rest are "work"
PS
It's funny to see only one "fun" guy here and rest are "work"
