Do any of you DUPLICATE a midi track to make it louder?

[XxSicRokerxX]

Dear Reader,

Sometimes when I replace a snare with a 100% snare sample using either aptrigga or drumagog i struggle making the snare sample sit well w/ the rest of the mix because the snare sample is too low (volume wise). I usually create a midi track for the snare and send it to Drumagog or aptrigga. I know i can modify the OUTPUT on either aptrigga or drumagog but it will quickly start clipping.

So a neat trick ive been doing is simply duplicating the snare MIDI track and it will instantly makes it louder. Sometimes i'll even duplicate 3x.

Does anyone else do this?

 

[crillemannen]

No seems stupid man..

 

[TheDriller]

Oh lord not this shit again,

provided the samples are triggering the same and there is no weird randomisation going on, this is the same as just doubling the volume.

EDIT: and if they're _not_ triggering exactly the same then you're going to have all manner of weird flams and phase problems.

 

[XxSicRokerxX]

Um...if you're going to answer claiming that my method is 'stupid' can you at least give some insight on what is a better option to making a snare sit well in a mix when the sample isn't loud enough otherwise why would you comment? even if its as simple as "just change the gain on the fader"

 

[drew_drummer]

No.

 

[timislegend]

compression
equalization
limiting

these are ways to make parts "fit" in the mix. you can't always rely on fader volume to do the trick.

stop duplicating midi tracks to make parts "louder", because it is indeed a stupid move.


SO NOW YOU KNOW:

 

[XxSicRokerxX]

driller i have thought about that as well, i have not played close attention to see if there is any 'weird randomization' taking place. There is only one instance of drumagog and x amount of midi tracks. There is a possibility that there is some weird randomization and if there its probably obscure (if there is i will renounce this method), i'm just trying to explore different methods to giving more gain to the snare without changing the fader or make-up gain on a comp.

 

[TheDriller]

Um...if you're going to answer claiming that my method is 'stupid' can you at least give some insight on what is a better option to making a snare sit well in a mix when the sample isn't loud enough otherwise why would you comment? even if its as simple as "just change the gain on the fader"

I'm trying really hard to not be a jackass,
but literally any technique will be more effective at sitting the snare than just doubling its volume.
EQ, Compression, Limiting, Saturation, its like a huge playground full of cool shit to play with.
Which is why it seems very odd when someone suggests doubling the size of the swing-set

On a more constructive note, we'll be able to help a lot better with an example to listen to,
post something that lacks "sit" and we'll work from there.

EDIT: a quick embellishment:
turning things up and duplicating and stacking and making shit louder is the equivalent of walking in circles,
its a fools errand that gives a false sense of progress, because you duplicate the snare and its twice the volume it was at before, and you're thinking "wow that sounds a lot better", but now the OH channel is a bit too quiet so that gets turned up, then the guitars are too low so you duplicate all of them, now the kick is buried so that goes up to. everything in the mix creeps up and you're thinking you've made progress but really you're chasing your own tail.
soon enough there is nowhere to go but clipping, so you grab the master fader and drag it down to make room...

... and now the snare sounds a bit weak, so you turn it up... etc...
eventually you end up with a swirling vortex of shit
I know because I've been there, we all have.

 

[Rhys Llewellyn]

I would say if your MIDI triggered samples aren't loud enough, perhaps try bringing down the overall volume of everything else then bring up the master.

I have my project template set up so that around a MIDI velocity of 110 I'm getting a healthy enough signal to drown out my guitars/bass/drums if I wanted to, with enough headroom if I needed to push it further on my "go to" VST strings/synths/pianos in my project template. For the writing stage anyway....

 

[XxSicRokerxX]

thank you tim and others, your insight is appreciated. I now have the answer. Thread Closed!

 

[Trevoire520]

I would say if your MIDI triggered samples aren't loud enough, perhaps try bringing down the overall volume of everything else then bring up the master.

Boom! If you can't get a track loud enough without it clipping then turn everything else down.

 

[SharkGTS]

How many people double up vocals, or layered them with tracks of synth /voice samples - what is that called padding? Then lather on the autotune, sounds all good for sure.

Double, triple quadruple etc. guitar tracks. I mean these days snare and kick are the starting point for live and for recorded work. without those you're kinda sunk. Agreed it makes no sense to dupe an identical track unless you carefully phase shift it (which is the stereo effect) or somehow change it's waveform to be complimentary but unique - ie the classic doubling.

We recorded live drums top/bottom snare and front /back kick. I used some condenser mics on the kick and dynamics on the snare. Was a weak result, took down the whole deal. So I said screw it and I tracked some new snare and kick using our TRex synth. The cool part about the synth is it's velocity sensitive - matching the stick strikes of the live recording.

I kept the live snare and kick tracks panned them 30% or so L&R and the TRex up the middle at 0%. Faders about the same across the board not too high. It really sounds natural...and sounds HUGE compared to what I recorded initially. So done without sample replacement and sounds like he's playing it.

 

[TheDriller]

How many people double up vocals, or layered them with tracks of synth /voice samples - what is that called padding? Then lather on the autotune, sounds all good for sure.

Not the same as just duplicating the track.

 

[SharkGTS]

true, if it were a dry mix... but I think it also depends on the how those tracks are panned going into the final compression and Fx applied (width processing, stereo reverb etc.) If you have that running it should result in a bigger sound as those tracks are processed x3 vs x1.

 

[Audiosprite]

^ well the point is that if you're layering the same exact same waveform on itself, nothing productive is being done. it's not like double-tracking.

 

[Sonic75]

You can try to use different samples that compensates each other

 

[John_C]

read: http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/9781570-post21.html

duplicating things doesn't help. Turn up the fader, if that means going in to the red then turn everything else down.

 

[JamesNorman]

Simply been said, turn everything else down to the snare, keeping the master fader at 0 and just turn the Monitors up, duplicating will just eat head room, especially if it just the same sample and same waveform.

 

[ahjteam]

Since midi is only data, it doesn't even make shit louder unless you change parameters.

 

[Wyldechyld]

Since midi is only data, it doesn't even make shit louder unless you change parameters.

Well in Reaper if you stack the midi tracks it does make it louder..