Do you believe in hell?

[Winter's Tear]

Is there is someone of you that really studied through the bible or something a while and then came to those conclusions(Except 'JesusChristPose')? Its just seems to me you all have heard stuff from your local church and thats where it ends, and if they were wrong - any other way is wrong. Am I right?
Anyway, I think there are other perspectives to dig before you banish the basic concept.


Nevermind. It wasn't the reason why I've wrote this message anyway. While reading all your messages I've came up to a thought, and I'd like that you'll have your opinions on it.
Approximately 4'000 years ago the very vast majority of humans believed in several Gods(not in the abstract, they actually made them from stones and other materials). For them, the concept of one God, which no one can see in his eyes, did not made any sense. Now, 4'000 years after, when no one(of course there are some execptions) even consider the idea of several Gods, people turning to Atheists. My question is, what do you think will be after(if) the majority will be Atheists? What will humans turn to in more 2'000 years? (BTW, I know that the history was a bit diff but I just wanted to get as faster to the point so I haven't went farther with details).

 

[YaYo]

We havent 'progressed' from multi-gods to one god, we've changed. I dont think people becoming atheists is really linked to the 1 or 2+ god thing. People are becoming atheist simply because of how easy knowledge is available these days, if you look at 3rd world countries where they dont have as good education systems, dont have internet, etc.. well theyre still very religious. Religion only looks so rediculous once you look at it from the outside. Ive said something similar to this following bit before.. what we accept as logical and normal, is simply what 'is'.. we dont get up every day and question gravity because everyone we know accept it and never question it. These people are bought up to believe there is a god/gods (as ancient people were), and simply accept it, but with our access to knowledge we learn to question it, and we see alternatives, and we dont have to obey, like has happened in the past.

Hm, i guess in a way thats why most popular religions in westernised places are 1 god religions, because with analysis these are easier to swallow.

anyway ive become sidetracked, the answer to the question.... in 2000 years there will still be religions, in places with access to outside sources the people will be either no god or 1 god. In places were alternate knowledge is limited they will be 1+ god (depending on how many gods the founder of the religions believed in).

(this wasnt the most well written post, sorry)

 

[Demonspell]

I'm still hoping we find the discovery or invention that makes religion obsolete...

 

[MetalManCPA]

Originally posted by Demonspell
I'm still hoping we find the discovery or invention that makes religion obsolete...

You can't destroy a cult (well, you can, but it would be ugly) - especially where the majority of the world is in it. Plus, people are too naive and closed minded to see the "truth" in a non-religious fashion - no matter what discovery or invention comes down the pike. Someone will throw doubt into the mix.

 

[JesusChristPose]

Today, in Christianity, it is taugt that when a person dies they immediately go to either heaven or hell. Upon studying the bible (many years ago), I found many "holes" in that belief and on occasion would seek answers from various leaders in the Christian faith, most of whom hold doctrines in their respective denominations.

One famous author and religious giant, I can't remember his first name, but his last name was Martin, used this verse from the bible as proof positive that when a person dies they go immediately to heaven.

The story of the thief on the cross, Christ speaks to the thief...

"Verily verily, I say unto you, today thou shalt be with me in paradise."

Now, am I that smart or are these leaders just plain lazy, believing that most of their sheep would not try to analyze that passage? It must be the latter.

Too easy...

The bible teaches on numerous occasions that Christ IS the First Fruits, meaning, Christ will be the first to ascend into heaven. In fact, the bible clearly states that no man has ascended to heaven until Christ ascends. Now the bible also teaches that Christ did not ascend into heaven until THREE days and THREE nights after his death.

"As Jonah was in the belly of a whale for three days and three nights, so shall be the Son of man in the heart of the earth."

Either the bible contadicts itself, Christ was lying, or Doctor Martin and his cronies got it wrong. For if Christ was to remain in the heart of the earth for THREE days and THREE nights, and if Christ is the FIRST FRUITS ~ the first to ascend into heaven,

How could the thief be with him in paradise on THAT DAY?

Now if one studies the bible with an open-mind and without any prejudices, biases, or subjective inducements, one can find out the true answer to that passage.

There was no punctuation marks used in the biblical scriptures and was translated with punctuation marks determined by men. How come these religous doctors can't get it right? Because they only want to control the masses. Using punctuation that doesn't make Jesus out to be a liar and which makes the bible not contradict itself, this is how that verse should be punctuated...

"Verily verily, I say unto you today, thou shalt be with me in paradise."

The emphasis of the term "today" is on the time of the promise, not when it was to take place.

There is more to this, because the word "paradise" does not even mean heaven....but I ramble.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Belial]

Originally posted by metalmancpa

You can't destroy a cult (well, you can, but it would be ugly) - especially where the majority of the world is in it. Plus, people are too naive and closed minded to see the "truth" in a non-religious fashion - no matter what discovery or invention comes down the pike. Someone will throw doubt into the mix.

I'm afraid I have to agree with this. After all, I once saw a web page by some religious nuts that claimed that the theory of evolution is "only a delusion to make it easier for people to deny God". Even if we were to prove Evolution, or some other theory beyond a shadow of a doupt, these people would never believe it and would cling to their precious religious beliefs.

 

[Satori]

Originally posted by blakmetalemp
i was not going to post on this subject, except for that little Wal-Mart joke, but after reading everyones thoughts about god, heaven and hell, i agree with some and disagree with some and started to wonder what peoples thoughts are about where we come from. if people are going to hell or where ever or whatever or maybe just die and thats it, then where did we start from. i dont belive we "just happened", someone or something is the reason we are here in the first place. even if evolution is truely the way we as humans came about, where did it start? thin air? i doubt it. just like to know others opinions on the subject.

The concept of "god" doesn't answer any questions pertaining to the existence of the universe, it just postpones this question and creates even more questions.

What is a more plausible scenario?
1) The universe spings into life out of nothing
2) A omnipotent human-minded "god" thing (which has the ability to create universes) springs into life out of nothing

The god concept is an incredibly laboured one and it just creates more questions than it answers.

Also, looking at the beginning of the universe in terms of Newtonian cause/effect and linear time is short-sighted. Reality is still quite far beyond our comprehension and perhaps always will be so there simply may not be an "answer" in the humanistic sense, we may not be able to grasp it or even conceive of a reality we have never experienced and can't measure. Simply saying "god did it" is a lot like saying "chickens come from grocery stores".

Satori

 

[Satori]

I'm a little tired of people still thinking that Jesus was the father of Christianity, he wasn't! It has nothing to do with Jesus telling the truth or whatever, the bible is a complete confabulation built on the sordid tale of an ancient jewish politician named Jesus.

Religion is a tool of the corrupt to dominate the minds of the weak. The literal interpretation of biblical bullshit is completely without merit.

The truly sad thing here is that people are living in fear of this nonsense and it affects their lives negatively.

Satori

 

[Ethereal Sage]

Originally posted by Winter's Tear
Is there is someone of you that really studied through the bible or something a while and then came to those conclusions(Except 'JesusChristPose')? Its just seems to me you all have heard stuff from your local church and thats where it ends, and if they were wrong - any other way is wrong. Am I right?
Anyway, I think there are other perspectives to dig before you banish the basic concept.

I am not a follower of religions (although I read a bit about Gnosticism), but I believe in Jesus Christ. My conclusions come mainly from perception and thought, and the study of Metaphysics and Philosophy. I have only read the first 3rd of the Old Testament, and small parts elsewhere, and I know that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, so I don't ascertain as to know much at all about the bible.

My question is, what do you think will be after(if) the majority will be Atheists? What will humans turn to in more 2'000 years? (BTW, I know that the history was a bit diff but I just wanted to get as faster to the point so I haven't went farther with details).

Personally, I don't believe we'll be around that long, due to either divine intervention (most likely), or we'll have almost wiped our whole population out way before.

But if you asked my to humour you in playing along with your idea, I believe that the atheists would be getting nowhere, and may start to believe again possibly.

 

[D Mullholand]

"I feel a real indication, of a laugh coming on..."

This is going to be interesting !

 

[Sullen Jester]

Trust me, read the bible.
It shall educate you in all you need to know of how evil God is.

Before my dad destroyed the harddrive on my other computer, I had a list of references which pointed out SOME of the bad stuff in in, such as:

• He orders the death of homosexuals
• He orders genocide of several nations/races

There are many more acts of that prove that God (if he exists) is a genocidal/homophobic/misanthropic maniac, but more to come.

I shall try to find those references again.

 

[Sullen Jester]

Here is just some of what I originally had from the bible:

Numbers 31:18 - that's the one where Moses says to the Isrealites "Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves."

1 Timothy 2:11-15 - This one says women should remain silent and obedient.

The whole book of Joshua is about genocide, but it's most explicit in Joshua chapters 10-11, the Isrealites spared no women or children in their campaign.

 

[JesusChristPose]

There are at least two instances in the bible where Paul tells Timothy to drink wine for the good of his stomach. Also, there is one instance where Paul admonishes the deacons/pastiors of his day to watch how much wine they drink in order not to become drunkards.

However, it is held in mainstream Protastanism, especially the baptists and pentacostals in the bible belt, that the bible teaches that alcohol, in itself, is a sin to drink. They further to state that the wine that Jesus made out of water (during the wedding reception) was only grape juice.

Schooling for those christians...

The greek word, "onios" means, in Greek, a fermented grape beverage. This same word, translated into the english word "wine" can be found in Paul's warnings to his deacons and to the advice he gave Timothy.

The christians can't even get their own bible right.

 

[morganm]

TED JESUS CHRIST GOD

This guy explains everything....

"The Spiritual LightSide does work subtly also and this is to counter much of what Satan and Demons did and do cause to happen on World Earth. The Earth Angels of Light did do much with Encoded and Subtle and Obvious and Blatant Messages that includes Religious Symbols and in the Secular Things and in Mass Media with numbers of things and numbering and colors and images and structures and in architecture and more that is there and is Encoded to Subtle to Obvious to Blatant. Many times this has to be figured out. Much of this is on and in Religious symbols and on and in Synagogues and on and in Cathedrals and on and in Church buildings and in their art and in their architecture and in many Religious writings also. Many of the 6 things represent 6,000 years of mankind on World Earth until THE LION. Many of the 3 things represent 3,000 years without the Messiah and Christ and More Plan and or 3,000 years from the revealing of the Messiah and Christ and More Plan that was approximately 1,000 years before the birth of Jesus Christ to Y2K."



Crazy people are fun.



Morgan

 

[Belial]

Originally posted by Satori


The concept of "god" doesn't answer any questions pertaining to the existence of the universe, it just postpones this question and creates even more questions.

What is a more plausible scenario?
1) The universe spings into life out of nothing
2) A omnipotent human-minded "god" thing (which has the ability to create universes) springs into life out of nothing

The god concept is an incredibly laboured one and it just creates more questions than it answers.

Don't ever say that to a devout Christian. They'll only waste your time by saying "we were never meant to fathom God" or some nonsense like that. It gets really irritating when you try to argue logically and get that kind of circular reasoning.

 

[Ethereal Sage]

Originally posted by Belial


Don't ever say that to a devout Christian. They'll only waste your time by saying "we were never meant to fathom God" or some nonsense like that. It gets really irritating when you try to argue logically and get that kind of circular reasoning.

Just realize, Belial, at that point, you have taken the Christian to their furtherest level of though...belief kicks in after that, because they don't have an answer to your question.

Whether their statement is true or not is another question, but it seems you have gotten the most out of them for an arguement.

E.S.

 

[RETIREDTrapped]

Religion = The cult of God.

 

[Satori]

In regard to the last few posts I make the following assertion:

****Religion negates logic/reason.****

I find it a little more than sad/funny that some people think that an omnipotent being would insist that we disregard our ("god-given", hah) intellect in order to swallow it's very existence. To me, this is simply too ridiculous to even begin to take seriously. If there were a god and the ONLY objective in it's own existence was to have us "believe" it exists (and of course kiss its ass), why would it give us such logical and discriminating minds and at the same time offer us little or no reason/evidence to even think it exists? Why would "god" give us logical minds and ask us to have "faith" in it's existence without providing any valid reasons for us to do so? That's just pathetic. I have a very hard time thinking that an omnipotent being would be such cum-wad. I think the past and modern conception of "god" paints it as a cruel and egocentric freak that is simply insulting to it. I don't think an omnipotent entity could ever be so mentally fucked up as this.

It's almost as innane as the concept that "god" created humans for the primary purpose of kissing it's ass 24/7. If you were omnipotent, would YOU give a flying fuck if some hairless primates worshipped you and kissed your ass out of fear and forced pretense of "love"? The humans who thought along these lines are typically insane/cruel dictators such as Stalin or Hitler, monsters by our definition, but even these fucks pale in comparison to the idiocy, egocentricism, and cruelity of "god" simply because they are mortal and have limited resources of power.

Religion is completely and purely idiotic no matter how you look at it because the premise of it is based on ideas that are far too silly and implausible to be considered even remotely rational/plausible.

Satori

 

[MetalManCPA]

Some of the things we believe in prove that we're all at least a little bit insane. Religion binds people up without them even knowing it. How can something non-existant choke life out of you, and prevent you from living?

Do a sanity check on yourself - then get out the straigh-jacket

 

[Belial]

Originally posted by metalmancpa
Some of the things we believe in prove that we're all at least a little bit insane. Religion binds people up without them even knowing it. How can something non-existant choke life out of you, and prevent you from living?

Do a sanity check on yourself - then get out the straigh-jacket

I think there's no such thing as a sane human. Only those less insane than others. Its kind of funny when you think of this from the religion perspective.

All people are crazy, so we have to have ways to entertain our insanity to an acceptable extent. Sort of like having a God that dictates how you live your life in order to go to a spiritual utopia.

If I were to go to a job interview and say that I can't do certain things because my (imaginary) friend Bob says doing those things are wrong, and say I can't be in at certain times because I have to go out and spend quality time with Bob and improve our "personal relationship", and later my boss found me in a room talking to Bob before eating and asking him to give me his best wishes so I can start eating. Then later I talked to my boss and asked his opinion about Bob and started talking about things Bob says to me, and say how great of a person he is. What would he think of me? He'd think I was pretty crazy, huh?

Funny thing is, if it were God instead of Bob, my boss would view me as a good Christian, and respect me for my devotion to God. If It were indeed an imaginary friend named Bob, I'd be in a nut house by now. As I said, all people are crazy, and God is just every Christian's imaginary friend Bob.

Non-believers aren't exempt. We all have our little obsessions and fixations, and we do crazy things sometimes for fun. There's no shame in it. Our insanity is what makes us human.