Do you think the Roman Catholic church is breathing it's last breath?

[Demiurge]

and based on my observations above, i do not think catholicism will.

You completely miss the mark by not recognizing this as a social and psychological matter, not one of exegesis.

...

 

[Kenneth R.]

where's the discrepancy? i have stated my reasoning why i think it won't stay around. people already doubt and mock catholicism for the above, and many other faults as already pointed out in this thread.

 

[Iridium]

It just seems that your entire reasoning consists of:
1. I don't like X about the Catholic Church
2. Therefore, it will fail due to X.

Not surprising, really.

 

[Demiurge]

where's the discrepancy? i have stated my reasoning why i think it won't stay around. people already doubt and mock catholicism for the above, and many other faults as already pointed out in this thread.

Let me try to explain less subtly...barely anyone gives a shit about your biblical exegesis! All of your reasons are ineffectual.

 

[NeverIsForever]

I don't know if the Catholic Church is breathing its last breath, but IMO it should be. Not even necessarily because so many of its priests are pedophiles, but because its doctrines are firmly embedded in what was logical 2000 years ago. Society has progressed, but the ideals of the Catholic Church (no birth control, no women in the priesthood) really haven't, and they simply aren't practical anymore. Either they need to realize this and adapt accordingly, or face extinction as concepts that made sense centuries ago become increasingly less easy to reconcile with modern society.

 

[Voice of God]

Since 1700's (enlightment) the world has been slowly, but steadily, become more and more secular. It's not just catholic church that is dying, but all religions, and it's not because of some scandals or such, just natural development. It will take a long time though, at least the 150 years someone mentioned, maybe much longer in poor countries.
While the numbers for catholicisim, islam and others are still big and will be growing because of the population boom in developing countries, that doesn't mean that all of those in official statistics are practicing believers. e.g. Officially around 85% of finns are lutheran, but only 2% of them went weekly to church, and a 1991 study said that only 33% of finns believe in the church's view of god. I undestand this is pretty much true in other "western" countries too (except maybe US). Slowly the percentages will creep lower towards religiouslessness and/or anti-organized-religion at least and I think the secularizatiuon will eventually be true in elsewhere in world also. But it will take time.

Well, this is my view anyway. I kind of hope I'm right, hehe.

Edit: Changed my wording...

 

[Kenneth R.]

It just seems that your entire reasoning consists of:
1. I don't like X about the Catholic Church
2. Therefore, it will fail due to X.

Not surprising, really.

and how is this any different than any of your opinions? since we are expressing our opinions here.

it's more the case of:

1. catholic church fails to represent what it claims to be in x ways.
2. therefore i think it will fail, since many more people seem to be out to find inconsistency and critique as a way to persecute religion.

 

[cfh]

I hope so.. Religions should be forbidden by a law.

May the pope kiss my unwipped ass.

 

[Lord SteveO]

I agree with whoever said it would take 100~ years or something similar.
I think some aspects of the RC church are simply out-dated, such as their teachings about contraception etc. Such out-dated teachings will only hinder the church in the future. Whilst develpoing countries will not be affected much, i suspect the developed ones, where people see the errors of for example banning contraception, will change their views of the church.
Faith in God or Jesus etc IMO is fine, its just when you get organised religions you get trouble. Not only because of conflicts with other religions, but also because eventually worshipers start to find that certain aspects don't work well with the way human society is developing.
The RC church needs to seriously modernise or change some of its ideals or it will come to an end.

 

[Kenneth R.]

i think its modernization is the problem - that it consents to bend to the will and law of mankind rather than the will and law of God. it has consented to be ruled by a far weaker master.

 

[Lord SteveO]

But at the same time if the RC church trully followed the will and law of God would we have had all these scandals with priests etc? By acting in such ways they are going against what they teach, going against Gods will you could say.

 

[Kenneth R.]

But at the same time if the RC church trully followed the will and law of God would we have had all these scandals with priests etc? By acting in such ways they are going against what they teach, going against Gods will you could say.

absolutely. by these scandals they are even moreso tarnishing that which they think they are preaching, by not only warping the message of God, but by they themselves breaking his laws in sin. thus is my dislike for many of those of this creed. one could not successfully argue that Christianity is doomed to failure in these times, but the roman catholic church as an entity seems to be hitting wall after wall.

 

[Lord SteveO]

I completely agree.
Christianity is probably growing stronger, lots of S.American countries are christian as are many African ones.
But the RC church is just shooting itself in the foot, by refusing to modernise even in the face of tremedous pressures and also by the actions of some of its own people.

In my own opinion religion is fine as is faith in whatever you like. My problem is when you get organised religion, trying to make lots of people folllow one "true path" and stuff. That's all the RC church has become IMO, a means to control the masses. You can be a good christian without having to worry about being a good catholic.

 

[Kenneth R.]

You can be a good christian without having to worry about being a good catholic.

absolutely. i would summarize my thoughts as: i am one who endeavors to follow the life and counsel of Jesus Christ, not the man elected Pope by his own peers.

 

[Sepsis]

I don't know if the Catholic Church is breathing its last breath, but IMO it should be. Not even necessarily because so many of its priests are pedophiles, but because its doctrines are firmly embedded in what was logical 2000 years ago. Society has progressed, but the ideals of the Catholic Church (no birth control, no women in the priesthood) really haven't, and they simply aren't practical anymore. Either they need to realize this and adapt accordingly, or face extinction as concepts that made sense centuries ago become increasingly less easy to reconcile with modern society.

So many priests? There's a smaller percentage of priests that are pedophiles than teachers. Not that I'm condoning it, but neither is the pope or any of the billion other Catholics out there.

As to your other points, I don't think values have changed all that much. After all, if they (women in priesthood, birth control, etc) change, what's wrong with other values changing - for example what if our distaste for murder or theft became 'impractical'? They very well could if we weren't as wealthy as we are.

edit:
On the topic, the Catholic church will survive.

 

[Valerie]

No it will survive: If truth were not boring, science would have done away with God long ago. But God as well as the saints is a means to escape the dull
banality of truth (Tears and Saints p57).

Most people cannot accept that their lives are absolutely meaningless and totally organic. The catholic church tells them they are worth something.

I completely agree with that. But I don't see Catholocism going away for a long time. As long as there are the extremists it will never go away.

Interesting reads: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html