Done a 360 in terms of gear (Guitars)

[ShadowKind]

For some reason I just can't get along with moddelers of any kind, just sold my axe 2.. Started at Real amp > Line 6 > Eleven Rack > Axe FX2 > Real amp..

For me (Might only be me), but it's just so fucking easy to stick a mic in front of a decent amp and hit record... I scored a rare vintage ENGL Savage 60 so I did a quick recording and nearly cried with Joy after nearly a year of pissing about..

Below took me ten minutes, no processing whatsoever bar a limiter for volume.. Not tweaking for fucking months, no hassle...

Chain > SM57 > Mesa Cab > Engl Savage 60. Question is, what's your experience on Amps and moddelers?

Here is a mix with ENGL in for reference:

 

[FIXXXER]

recording an amp/box setup is also what i would prefer over anything else,
the problem with this is...i just can't crank up a 100W head in my apartment, that's why i always used multiFX/preamps/modelers and DIRECT recording.

if i had a place to record i'd instantly sell my AXE II and buy one or two heads, a solid 4x12, a few mics and have lots of fun!

 

[ShadowKind]

recording an amp/box setup is also what i would prefer over anything else,
the problem with this is...i just can't crank up a 100W head in my apartment, that's why i always used multiFX/preamps/modelers and DIRECT recording.

if i had a place to record i'd instantly sell my AXE II and buy one or two heads, a solid 4x12, a few mics and have lots of fun!

That's actually reassuring to know, because with a 2K piece of equipment you think.. it must be me?? Then I listen to other tracks and think, hmmm! Maybe not..

Had some decent and useable results with an Axe FX through a Mesa Cab, but it kinda defeated the purpose of it as I already have some good amps.

 

[mephisto_loh]

Man, i also had the same problem. but once i got a real amp an a 4x12 tweaking was really easy and you got a fucking nice tunes out of it. Before that i had a line 6 and to get a decent sound i had to quad track and pass them through a good preamp to give the tracks that warm harmonics that does not show on the modelers. It's also a matter of dynamic range. it's different to record the movement of the air pushed from a speaker than to model that frequency response of a certain signal chain in certain conditions you don't know.

 

[ShadowKind]

Man, i also had the same problem. but once i got a real amp an a 4x12 tweaking was really easy and you got a fucking nice tunes out of it. Before that i had a line 6 and to get a decent sound i had to quad track and pass them through a good preamp to give the tracks that warm harmonics that does not show on the modelers. It's also a matter of dynamic range. it's different to record the movement of the air pushed from a speaker than to model that frequency response of a certain signal chain in certain conditions you don't know.

Kool, what we thinking about modellers through cabs?

 

[Trevoire520]

Preamp moodels through a valve poweramp and cab can sound REALLY good actually. The last Periphery album was exactly that and I LOVE the guitar sound on that album!

 

[Melb_shredder]

I'm the same. I've used modellers/ sims before when I've been forced down that path. But nothing for me beats micing up a real amp, playing with mic positions/ choices and tonal options on the amp and everything else that affects the outcome. It always for me comes out suiting the mix a lot better in the end. Granted I don't record djent bands/ scream-core so I an avoid modellers 9/10 times hehe!

 

[mephisto_loh]

I Agree with Trevoire as long as you got the sound you want it can be recorded ino a trash can if you like. perhaps it can sound nice to throw a modeler through the amp and then the cab. or just the cab with a monoblock amp.

 

[ShipwreckSoundWorks]

For some reason I just can't get along with moddelers of any kind, just sold my axe 2.. Started at Real amp > Line 6 > Eleven Rack > Axe FX2 > Real amp..

Below took me ten minutes, no processing whatsoever bar a limiter for volume.. Not tweaking for fucking months, no hassle...

You act like what you have there is something amazing. Those tones aren't exactly wonderful, I'd like to hear them processed, but you can't release something like that to a client if you're expected to get more business.
My point is, you're raving about how easy it was to do this. It's also easy to stick one mic in front of a drum kit and get a turd, because in a sense that's what you have there.
You should be able to get a good sound of both modeling equipment, and real amps. Both are extremely capable of producing great tones. Take Ola for example. He will take a fucking Roland Cube 15x, and make it sound like a fucking war beast 6505 raping a 5150. He can do the same thing with an Axe FX, or POD HD500. It's just up to having a good producer at the computer working your sound.
I'm not saying I can do better, because I can't. I'm just saying that if you got that tone out of your amp, you could easily do the same thing with modeling equipment.

 

[kylendm]

I find myself spending 10x longer getting a good sound out of a modeler than a real amp.

 

[ShadowKind]

You act like what you have there is something amazing. Those tones aren't exactly wonderful, I'd like to hear them processed, but you can't release something like that to a client if you're expected to get more business.
My point is, you're raving about how easy it was to do this. It's also easy to stick one mic in front of a drum kit and get a turd, because in a sense that's what you have there.
You should be able to get a good sound of both modeling equipment, and real amps. Both are extremely capable of producing great tones. Take Ola for example. He will take a fucking Roland Cube 15x, and make it sound like a fucking war beast 6505 raping a 5150. He can do the same thing with an Axe FX, or POD HD500. It's just up to having a good producer at the computer working your sound.
I'm not saying I can do better, because I can't. I'm just saying that if you got that tone out of your amp, you could easily do the same thing with modeling equipment.

How much time have you spent recording? That's what an amp and mic sounds like.. Seriously what the hell has that got to do with releasing to clients? They would get a mix with a processed sound!!.. Clients don't care about raw sounds, they pay you to record and mix it!!..

It's knowing what tonalities will fit in a mix, it creates separation and doesn't clutter shit up without doing any processing.. So I can make that fit and sound fucking beautiful in a mix..

Everything is workable, I have a pod an axe fx and several boutique amps.. That raw recording will make my life easier going forward.. Pod's etc. are generally mainly processed before it hit's your amp and sounds mainly like digital shit. For 10 minutes of work I bet most people would even struggle to get that sub par tone from a modeller.

 

[ShipwreckSoundWorks]

How much time have you spent recording? That's what an amp and mic sounds like.. Seriously what the hell has that got to do with releasing to clients? They would get a mix with a processed sound!!.. Clients don't care about raw sounds, they pay you to record and mix it!!..

It's knowing what tonalities will fit in a mix, it creates separation and doesn't clutter shit up without doing any processing.. So I can make that fit and sound fucking beautiful in a mix..

Everything is workable, I have a pod an axe fx and several boutique amps.. That raw recording will make my life easier going forward.. Pod's etc. are generally mainly processed before it hit's your amp and sounds mainly like digital shit. For 10 minutes of work I bet most people would even struggle to get that sub par tone from a modeller.

I've been recording for two years.
Everything you just said is my entire point.
Everything is workable. Just do what you do.
I understand they would get a mix with a processed sound, but you can get a better tone that that, even unprocessed. I'm not saying that I can get a better tone, just that better tones can be achieved, even from modeling equipment. So I'm saying, you shouldn't be calling a foul on modeling equipment, when you can't do better with a real amp.
I would appreciate if you would go ahead and not talk down to me like I have no clue what I'm talking about. You're the one that restated what I said, to a point. Even if I'm not as experienced as most people, I've been working it long enough to understand it all.

The tones sound nice though. I really do want to hear what they sound like processed.

 

[ShadowKind]

I've been recording for two years.
Everything you just said is my entire point.
Everything is workable. Just do what you do.
I understand they would get a mix with a processed sound, but you can get a better tone that that, even unprocessed. I'm not saying that I can get a better tone, just that better tones can be achieved, even from modeling equipment. So I'm saying, you shouldn't be calling a foul on modeling equipment, when you can't do better with a real amp.
I would appreciate if you would go ahead and not talk down to me like I have no clue what I'm talking about. You're the one that restated what I said, to a point. Even if I'm not as experienced as most people, I've been working it long enough to understand it all.

The tones sound nice though. I really do want to hear what they sound like processed.

I meant no disrespect, although some of it came across a little like an attack because I hadn't mixed it.. That wasn't the point for me sir.. It was just to say hey mic amp / done.. I have done a quick mix not great spent an hour on it.. But it should give you a general idea..

Added a mix to the top post..

 

[ShadowKind]

I'm the same. I've used modellers/ sims before when I've been forced down that path. But nothing for me beats micing up a real amp, playing with mic positions/ choices and tonal options on the amp and everything else that affects the outcome. It always for me comes out suiting the mix a lot better in the end. Granted I don't record djent bands/ scream-core so I an avoid modellers 9/10 times hehe!

Agreed, one thing I always struggled with and it could be my own ignorance with modellers is getting that clean yet heavy sounded guitar tracks without upping the distortion and getting a sense of space in the mix.

 

[ShipwreckSoundWorks]

I meant no disrespect, although some of it came across a little like an attack because I hadn't mixed it.. That wasn't the point for me sir.. It was just to say hey mic amp / done.. I have done a quick mix not great spent an hour on it.. But it should give you a general idea..

Added a mix to the top post..

No it's all good man!
Checked it out, tones sound nice! And they sounded nice beforehand as well.

 

[ShadowKind]

No it's all good man!
Checked it out, tones sound nice! And they sounded nice beforehand as well.

Yeah, shows how much post processing goes into it.. Comparing the two back I agree with you

Ola must do some post processing on his vids.. At least some.. Even if it's a bit of eq / compression and maximisation on the master bus / limiter etc.

Also this may be blasphemy, but I'm not a massive fan of the SM57 on the cab.. But it's all I had on me at the time of this recording before the amp went in the shop for a valve change.. I normally use a MD421 / Neumann or Mojave FET.

The lead tone was a POD HD 500 as well..

Thanks

 

[ShipwreckSoundWorks]

Ola must do some post processing on his vids.. At least some.. Even if it's a bit of eq / compression and maximisation on the master bus / limiter etc.

Also this may be blasphemy, but I'm not a massive fan of the SM57 on the cab.. But it's all I had on me at the time of this recording before the amp went in the shop for a valve change.. I normally use a MD421 / Neumann or Mojave FET.

The lead tone was a POD HD 500 as well..

Thanks

Oh of course he does! But he shows sometimes some quad tracked unprocessed stuff, and it sounds godly. It's a tone I could only get WITH processing. Point being, he gets badass tones.
I know what you mean. I don't understand that hype for it, for anything really, but It's not a bad mic. Neuman is the way to go.

 

[Unavailable]

Not to fuel the fire or anything here, but I gotta agree with Shipwreck. Those tones aren't great, man. I think you could do better. It really does sound like you spent a few minutes and tossed a mic in front of the amp and hit record. There's something left to be desired.

 

[ShadowKind]

Not to fuel the fire or anything here, but I gotta agree with Shipwreck. Those tones aren't great, man. I think you could do better. It really does sound like you spent a few minutes and tossed a mic in front of the amp and hit record. There's something left to be desired.

That's exactly what I did , I think I put somewhere the whole thing took less than 5 or 10 minutes..

It's kind of a weird one, I suppose you really shouldn't put unfinished or quick / raw products on the net.

What about the actual mix?

 

[Unavailable]

The guitars seem too nasally and low gain for me. Cymbals sound tiny, like they've been highpassed at 5khz.