Dont you feel its a pitty to boost your amp?

aviel

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Aug 2, 2011
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Well..
i know most of us use some kind of boost (tube screamer or so) in front of the amp to get that voicing that feets so good in a mix.

But i feel kind of bad putting a boost in front of the amp, meaning, you spend your money buying an amp which is made for power, made for metal, like rectifier/engl or anything else.

and then you end putting that thing in front of your amp..the problem is that it does sounds better with those boosts! and it makes me wonder why they dont put the same circuit of a screamer inside the amp..
 
Maybe because there are a few different "Tubescreamer" circuits out there, each with different tonal characteristics.
Plus the swathe of alternative pedals on the market.

Realistically an amp maker can never anticipate what the user will really want, so why not just leave it seperate and have the player use whatever their own favourite boost happens to be?

As for it being a "pity", i can see where you're coming from, but I just think of it as another piece of the puzzle, the same as an amp, cab, guitar, pickup, string, etc...
 
I somewhat agree with the OP. I swear, I just can NOT play my Mark IV or 5150 anymore without a boost in front. Especially the Mark IV, which I spent a lot of $ on. It just sounds dull and the low end sounds like crap, but throw a TS in front with gain on 0, and god DAMN what a difference.
 
just listen to this clip, it seend i cant play the amp without boost also :(
just two chords i made. i play like shit here, i actially was too tired to remember what i played so the panned takes are a bit differant. but listen to the differance. first without boost. second is with a metalzone (!) boost.
amp is engl powerball


 
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ENGLs have a similar circuit inside them to a boost, never needed a boost with them.. Whatever works though, if an amp sounds better with a boost what's the big deal? Not having it built in gives you more flexibility anyway.
 
I see were you are coming from, you spend thousands of grands on an amp and then put some thing in front of it for sometimes not even 10% of the price that makes it sound so much (depending on the amp) better.

That's my issue with the Dual Recto. Over here it costs a fortune, and it IS NOT PLAYABLE without a boost for modern metal stuff. It's disgusting how much it farts in the bass even with tight playing and EMG's.
One has to keep in mind thought that sometimes that kind of loose low end is good for different styles than metal, so building an amp that is tight like that all the time might take away a lot of tonal possibilties.

I like my 6505+ with a TS in front of it, but I don't use it anymore live and at rehearsals because it is tight enough without, and I hate the pedal hopping for switching to clean.

But the next Amp I will get will be easily tight enough without a tubescreamer (Earforce Two or Diezel Herbert).

FWIW, I think ibanez has an amp with built in tubescreamer.
 
Another point worth considering is that the "Metal Tone" we all love is a very niche thing. These amps have a far larger market outside of the metal scene than inside it, hence why Mesa, for example, aren't scrambling to put in a feature that will be useful to only a small percentage of their customer base.
 
haha, is that what the 'beast mode' or whatever is? i thought it was just a mid boost or some shit.

If I remember correctly, it is a combination between the tubescreamer and the EQ pedal setup that King uses on his amp. I don't think it's footswitchable though, which is weird imo :S
 
Not at all. They are just tools. I can mix and match pedals, amps, and cabs to get the sound I want. I don't feel bad about putting a tube screamer in front of an amp. It doesn't make the amp less ideal or desirable. I'd rather have a versatile amp and use a tube screamer to get more rock/metal tones out of it than have to have several amps that only got one tone for a specific genre.

Another point worth considering is that the "Metal Tone" we all love is a very niche thing.

^^^ This.
 
Another point worth considering is that the "Metal Tone" we all love is a very niche thing. These amps have a far larger market outside of the metal scene than inside it, hence why Mesa, for example, aren't scrambling to put in a feature that will be useful to only a small percentage of their customer base.

Agree, I saw a band last week that the guitarist used a Gibson SG->Dual Recto->Roadster cab with no boost, sounded fantastic and shook the whole fuckin room. They reminded me of the band Cathedral, which I believe Gaz doesnt use a boost and sounds great. It's just a looser more open tone.
 
I actually get excited when playing with amp's because of all the boost pedals we have. I love mixing and matching amp's with and without boost's. But i never buy an expensive amp and think to myself. This thing isn't worth the money i paid for it cause it need's a boost. To me it is just another thing you can add to your amp's to bring out more of the beast soul of it.
 
I'm with you bro... spend 3-5k on a Diezel head and then boost it with a cheap tube screamer pedal? That just sounds like something's wrong. :D BUT!! We are living times when all we want to hear is what we are used to hearing. We are using SM57 mics for mic'ing guitar amps and they are even cheaper than tube screamers. Sure there are more suitable mics for the job out there but everyone's using an SM57 since it's the industry standard.
 
Well i can understand and even agree with all of it.. like.. never thought of the "outside of metal" community, (though i was sure companies like ENGL and Framus design their "heavy" models for metal purposes). and i can understand people prefer matching the correct boost themself, and its much more versatile.

but i feel like, "Really?? that little cheap pedal? which is even not true bypass (sometimes)? that what i have to put in front of the amp of my dream to make it sound like i hear in cds?" thats annoying :)

1 year ago i had like tones of pedals.. i had a peavy classic 50 head, i boosted it with a metal muff, and then boosted it again in the effect loop with an eq booster. it sounded killer. dirty as hell though, and the tubes had hard time surviving. so when i bought the amp and spent like 4k on it.. i thought, ahh no need for all those pedals, just pure amp tone. guess i was wrong :).

what i really ask myself is, since the scremer cleans the amp, and shape the sounds, does it really matters if its a mesa, an Engl or framus kobra, or even bugera? since the screamer is what coloring the sound.
 
what i really ask myself is, since the scremer cleans the amp, and shape the sounds, does it really matters if its a mesa, an Engl or framus kobra, or even bugera? since the screamer is what coloring the sound.

The Screamer obviously isn't the ONLY thing coloring the sound. Or else we would all buy a $100 Vypyr combo and a $100 Tube Screamer and be done with it. :p

Two other things to think about:
If a "metal" amp manufacturer put in a screamer circuit, which everybody might not use, then that boosts the price unnecessarily.

Also, a Tube Screamer isn't the ONLY boost you could use. I've tracked good sounding guitars with no boost, with an MXR ZW-44 Overdrive, even with a Big Muff fuzz pedal. The boost is just another interchangeable tool you can use to change the sound to your liking.
 
I definitely agree with you, and it's honestly a huge factor I take into consideration when I'm buying an amp.

If the amp only sounds good with a boost, then it either needs to:

A) Sound AMAZING with the boost, or

B) Be cheap enough that I don't feel like I've wasted money on an amp that needs a pedal to sound good

Such is the case with the Bogner Uberschall. I really liked the Rev. Blue I had with a boost, but I thought it sounded horrid it, and if I have to spend 2 grand on an amp and then still have to put a pedal in front of it to sound good, forget it.
 
This paradigm is always mundane. If you like the way an amp sounds with or without a boost, does it really matter the cost if you like that sound? A Bogner boosted will not sound the same as a dual rec boosted, however one amp might have tonal qualities that the player likes more although they may not like it unboosted.

Tradition is what keeps TS circuits out of amps, the guys running Vox combos don't mind running pedals throughout there amps and the more metal amps have brighter gain stages in the front which act in the same way as a TS does however the manufacture also realizes that they will have players that will still want to use a TS and having the amp super tight without one would make the TS brittle, so they usually go for a middle area. If they player uses bright tubes and active pickups a TS usually won't be needed but with darker tubes a player could use a TS. Still with bother scenarios, a brighter amp that does not need a boost will still have different harmonics and openness than a darker amp with a boost which will be richer in the mids and more focused.

Placing a TS circuit in the amp would cost more money that not every player might not want, although many players that use distortion will use them, including most rock players under the sun, after all it was SRV that started using TS's as boosts. Some smaller amp brands do provide a built in TS because they are going for a niche market. You have to remember though that there are some "purists" out there that would turn up their noses if they even knew that a circuit they felt was inferior was in an amp because they feel TS ruins the natural characteristic of the amp and makes all amps sound the same garbage that they like to spew. With those purists in mind amp companies are trying to appeal to everyone. That's why amps designed for metal still have the hot-rodded Marshall topology as its core design. If that core design changes too much and its not something that sounds familiar (some Engl, Orange and Vox models for example), most will turn away except the niche of players that model was designed for. So even though an amp was made for metal it was designed to impress even say rock/blues/country players as well. I think its quite horseshit because rock and blues players get exactly what they want out of their amps, we metal guys should get our special sound from our amps.

If cost and appealing to a larger audience isn't an issue then adding a TS would make perfect sense. I am still in the design process of my first amp design and it has a built in OD circuit that has selectable Symmetrical/Asymmetrical clipping, Silicon/Germanium diodes, two programable and switchable tone controls, true bypass and all midi switchable. The circuit has also been improved upon in terms of the input and output buffers, meaning that when you actually use the OD, you are not getting the tone suck that you would from a pedal.

IMO adding a TS in the amp helps with reliability of your rig, that's one less piece of equipment plus wallwart and one less cable that would could go wrong in a live environment. Plus it helps with tidiness both live and in the studio. I am also sure that if the circuity where to be put into an amp, that the components used would be of higher quality so not only would the boost sounds better but would also be less noisy. The noise that is being picked up when you use a pedal is becuase its ground becomes an antenna, at the same time, your guitar it not grounded to the amp, its grounded to the wallwart (which will cause a small ground loop) or the battery. With the TS in the amp, the gutiar is grounded through the amp, and the OD circuitry is grounded through the amp and built inside the chassis making it a whole lot more quiet.