Dream Theater's Systematic Chaos

For instance, In Flames had Sepultura as an opener once... Who's bigger around the world? If you say In Flames, you're on drugs...

sigh....will I ever get you people to check last.fm before spouting off stuff that makes you look dumb? :D

Total Plays:
In Flames - 16,691,562
Sepultura - 3,206,040

Total Listeners:
In Flames - 190,526
Sepultura - 120,270

And for reference, Dream Theater is 9,604,796/172,809, while Symphony X is 1,391,043/28,898

Neil
 
sigh....will I ever get you people to check last.fm before spouting off stuff that makes you look dumb? :D

Total Plays:
In Flames - 16,691,562
Sepultura - 3,206,040

Total Listeners:
In Flames - 190,526
Sepultura - 120,270

And for reference, Dream Theater is 9,604,796/172,809, while Symphony X is 1,391,043/28,898

Neil

last.fm is a bad indicator. horrid even.

However.

So...

Sigh... when can I get you to check album sales before you spout out stuff that makes you look dumb =D

Sepultura - Chaos A.D. sales = > 450,000

In Flames highest selling album = Come Clarity at over 117k copies. (Soundtrack to your Escape was about 100k)

for reference...

Dream Theater Image and Words sales = ~650k.
 
sigh....will I ever get you people to check last.fm before spouting off stuff that makes you look dumb? :D

Total Plays:
In Flames - 16,691,562
Sepultura - 3,206,040

Total Listeners:
In Flames - 190,526
Sepultura - 120,270

And for reference, Dream Theater is 9,604,796/172,809, while Symphony X is 1,391,043/28,898

Neil

The only one who's looking dumb over here by using Last FM to tell me who's bigger, is you. In Flames might be more popular nowadays but Sepultura has always been and will be bigger.... In other words, you're saying Shadows Fall is a bigger band than, say, Iron Maiden, just because nowadays people listen to Shadows Fall (or any other band, say Trivium or Dragonforce) than Iron Maiden.
 
BTW.

This album is awesome. It has great -songs-.

Constant Motion completely grew on me and now I love it. Petrucci's solo is sick too. Not just on a 'crazy guitar technical mojo' level either.

Forsaken is excellent.

The Dark Eternal Night is amazing. The singing, lyrics, riffs, solos all of them make this such an awesome song. The solos are something that can be 'got'...to know what they are saying with them! That makes me so happy.


Repentance is a Pink Floydish, type of a song. Consistent with some of DT's more ethereal/ambient songs, and its also very good. Its music.

Prophet's of War is interesting.

The Ministry of Lost Soul's is beautiful. The harmonized vocals don't work as well as they could. Something they can work on.

In the presence of enemies part 2 is good. I'll need to see how it grows on me.
 
Reading this thread made me realize what the only downside is to all of these amazing albums being released this year: Stupid Forum Bickering. It was bad enough when Unia leaked, and then came Ghost Opera, but Systematic Chaos and Paradise Lost have really lit a match under people.

Usually I enjoy reading threads discussing new albums, I like hearing people's opinions and I normally get some good insight into things that I might not have noticed yet. (Ex. "check out Song X at 2:48, that part rocks!") But recently it seems like you get half a page of positive comments and then someone hijacks the thread by saying that Band Z is better than Band X or that Album Z is better than Album X. Then from that point you get 5 pages of posts comparing, defending, flaming, and everything in between.

Now I'm not so naive as to think that this won't happen at all, but it's the increasing frequency and intensity that have been bothering me. Some people will make a good point but then ruin any good will by calling the other person retarded or gay. And then there are the people who don't even have a good point to make, and just spew blanket statements as fact and get upset when questioned. Or maybe you prefer the arrogant elitist's, who feel they own the forum and must control every thread.

Sorry about the ranting, just needed to get that off my chest. So to bring it back to my point, I think this is going to be the summer of the Flame War. So stock up on bottled water and canned goods cause you might have to retreat to the bunker until winter!
 
I'm not saying that last.fm is some kind of ultimate truth. But it can be a good sanity-check. If you know the stat that shows last.fm members have listened to 5 *times* as many In Flames songs as Sepultura songs, and *still* say that you have to be on drugs to think that In Flames is bigger than Sepultura, then there probably isn't anything I can say to change your mind. I'll just remember that fact when I read your posts in the future.

Since we were talking about relative billing on a tour that happened only a year ago, it just seems to me that current-listener data is a lot more relevant than sales data from a 14-year old album. And apparently the professionals who put that tour together agreed. In general, I just think that actual listening would be a better predictor of concert attendance than album sales. Especially today, when perhaps many potential concert-goers aren't even purchasing the albums anyway. And historically, it was easy to sell a ton of albums based on the quality of your *previous* album, even if the new one sucks and no one listens to it. Of course, I wouldn't completely ignore the sales figures either, it's all part of the picture.

In Flames might be more popular nowadays but Sepultura has always been and will be bigger....

The only way that statement can avoid being a logical impossibility is if your definition of "bigger" is somehow different than "more popular". Do you just mean that the guys in Sepultura are fatter?

In other words, you're saying Shadows Fall is a bigger band than, say, Iron Maiden, just because nowadays people listen to Shadows Fall (or any other band, say Trivium or Dragonforce) than Iron Maiden.

If nowadays people did listen to Shadows Fall more than Iron Maiden, then yes, I *would* say that Shadows Fall is "bigger". But, they don't.

Iron Maiden: 14,365,129/258,266
Shadows Fall: 912,805/46,585
Trivium: 4,155,014/97,314
Dragonforce: 3,265,903/98,982

Neil
 
I haven't heard a single thing from the new CD but I did purchase my Dream Theater concert tickets just this morning for their Dallas-area show. I've only seen them once before....at the first incarnation of Gigantour....and they absolutely stole the show hands down -- fantastic!
 
Stupid Forum Bickering.

someone hijacks the thread by saying that Band Z is better than Band X or that Album Z is better than Album X. Then from that point you get 5 pages of posts comparing, defending, flaming, and everything in between.

Think this is bad? Go over to the SX forum. The level of immaturity there is out of control.

On 2nd thought, don't go there.
 
Ok,

It's been about 9000 blue moons since last I posted, but I can't let this release go by without comments. So here ya go (cut and pasted from an email I just sent):

Track 1 - Very "Rush" sounding at the start. Like "Moving Pictures" era... aka "The Good stuff". Some good widdly widdly moments. Then we get into some LTE melodic sounding stuff. Again... me likey. Around the 4:00 minute mark we get a marked change to something that gives me almost an old Genesis vibe before the guitars come back in. Then James starts singing. It's ok.. but nothing special. I don't like the background "talking" stuff that double James singing. Nice unison playing by Jordan and JP.

Track 2 - Hmm, this reminds me of some other band. Not sure what it is. For some reason I like this song. It's not usual DT fare... but I like it. I got it. It's an Evanescence type vibe I get from this one. That groovy, melodic thing.

Track 3 - So most of us have heard this one. I like the proggy vibe of this one as it starts. Then it starts into the Metallica ripoff. "Blackened in the ennnnnnnd". :) What's with the space ship noises, Jordan? Please, Mike... SHUT THE HELL UP! Did I mention I want Castronovo to replace this guy so a real singer can sing backup? Some of the shreddier moments heard thus far. Solo is pretty killer. Something about the chorus I don't like. It's just goofy to me. It'll stick in my head, for sure... but it's because it annoys me so much, not because I like it.

Track 4 - I hate the bass in this one. Something about those chords Myung is playing grates on my nerves. Once they stop playing that opening riff crap, it gets better. Then the "blast beat" section. :) HATE the vocals that start on this one. Distorted vocals are stupid. End of story. I don't like the chorus on this either. Mike... SHUT UP! Eventually we get to the breakdown section with JP and Jordan grooving. This is better now. Again, LTE vibe. Pretty shreddy speed-metally solo section. Then back to the riff that shall not be named cuz it sucks and annoys.

Track 5 - "The AA Song". WAY TOO Floydian for me. This excites me about as much as going on a Jack Daniels and Prozac bender while listening to the paint dry in the house whilst staring at the lawn in anticipation of it's growing. Oh yeah... Roseanne Arnold is there too... nekkid and eating haggis. THAT'S how much I love this. *gag* The Roadrunner guys should have thrown them out of the studio when they played this pile of crap for them. The proper label response to DT on this song SHOULD have been, "Ummm.. you DO understand we are a METAL label, right?" Someone wake me up when this turd is done lingering like a rotted body in the hot sun of a Louisiana bayou, will ya?

Track 6 - Nope, I lied... it's still Track 5. DEAR GOD, MAKE IT STOP!!!

Track 6 ( for real ) - Is this that damn Muse song again from the last cd? Glad to see they got it out of their system... NOT. Am I the only one that's getting a friggin DISCO vibe from this piece of crap? So evidently they picked up a Donna Summer cd as an influence this time around? Stick a fork in them, these guys are DONE! What is with the gang vocals? Are these supposed to be powerful or sound big or something? Cuz I'm pretty sure they are just screaming "I HUG BOOBS" and "I WANT CHANGE" or something. Oh God.. more Mike talking. Hey Mike.... SHUT THE F*** UP!

Track 7 - Thank God... a slow song. All this metal was giving me high blood pressure. Oh wait... no... I just suffered through 2 straight tracks of dog crap in a pot of boiling piss. This better get better quick. James comes in... and we're back to happy Floyd crap again. Seriously, did they think they were on the Turdburner label now or Roadrunner? This is like country meets Floyd. I thought Anna Lee sucked. This makes it look like a masterpiece. Good Golly... I think I just threw up. Why did I have to wade through 8 minutes of crap to get to something resembling a song I MIGHT expect to hear on a DT cd? The solo is ok, but not overly special. Did I mention wah pedals sucks? And just because you play something SLOOOOOOOW, doesn't mean it's all that melodic and not just boring as all get out, JP.

Track 8 - Whew... thank goodness Track 7 is over. Will this be the tasty close to this craptastic effort, bookending a steaming pile of horse doo doo? It had so much possibility with Track 1. *sigh* Oh, we're trying to be evil now? W-E-A-K. This is about as metal as grandma's lace doilies and plastic covered furniture. Seriously, this is so bad it's funny. I can see them all dressed in Manowar garb trying to be metal and just embarrassing themselves. Finally around 6:30 it gets not as terrible. Start the song here and it could make a decent showing. Again, the gang vox are just not doing it for me. This song is just too long to keep my attention... this seems to be a motif on the cd. At least there's a real solo on this one. Pretty decent shreddy stuff. Jordan needs to get over his analog synth love and just get back to playing something from the 21st century. 'FART BASTAAAAAAAARD' is all I can hear when James sings "Dark Master". And so it ends...

Overall thoughts. Not enough here to warrant going to Roadrunner Records. This cd has more in common with Air Supply than it does with Trivium. Seriously, what were they thinking? They damn well better not play any of this crap during the tour or they'll get booed off the stage... even if it's only me doing it.

I'm not sure, but I think that dog turd, Daedalus, was better than this.

Well, there ya have it. Jeffro's obligatory knee jerk, one listen review.

Flame away, fan-boys and fan-girls.

You know the thing that pissed me off the MOST? It's that I will be buying this damn thing's special edition, JUST to have the multichannel audio to listen to. If I wasn't such an audio nerd, I could bypass this sucker completely. Damn them.

Hugs,
Jeffro
 
I've only heard it once through, but sounds great. Dream Theater kicks ass hands down on most bands. I seem to be in the minority though in liking Octavarium better. It had been awhile since I last spun it, but I blasted it on the road up from LA to SF on the way to BARFEST and it was just utterly amazing. I think Octavarium is one the best, after Images and Words and Scenes from a Memory. Looking forward to listening to Systematic Chaos more though and really looking forward to their upcomding shows with Redemption - same week as Symphony X and Rush - Oh Yeah!!! :headbang: :headbang:
 
In DT's case, it's fact. They have a fanbase 2nd to no other band in the prog metal genre. Other bands would die to have DT's following. They sit atop the genre and they did it by being the best at what they do. Like it or not...but you can't ignore it.
Didn't DT get placed in a headlining or co-headlining position recently with Heaven & Hell at a fest?
In Flames & Sepultura are not in my sphere so l have no clue as to their status.

You also have an opinion which differs from mine on SC & PL...it's a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful world.

And to follow up to my post less than 2 minutes ago. Your post makes the assumption that fanbase means that they 'sit atop the genre by being the best at what they do'. Does Metallica sit atop their genre with their huge fanbase because they're the best at what they do?