Drug testing in America
- Thread starter Rhys Llewellyn
- Start date
they do, dipshit
they're called criminal background checks, and any employer who takes their hiring practices seriously runs them on potential employees. this is why there's a portion on most applications asking if you've ever been convicted of a felony.
also, most workplaces will test for alcohol, along with drugs, if they have cause to do so. if you come in smelling or acting drunk/high, you're going to get tested...most often because if your activities impair your job to the point where you hurt yourself or someone else, and the company didn't take appropriate action, they're going to be legally liable for the actions you committed as an employee.
also, anyone who fails a piss test for a job is just a moron. for my current job, i finished up a bowl of sticky cali purps on a tuesday...applied wednesday...passed a drug test thursday. i've now worked there almost 3 years, and have in that time become a manager faster than pretty much anyone in the company(out of about 260 locations) despite being high at least half of the time that i'm there. there's simple and fail proof methods out there of beating urinalysis screening, and as long as one has at least 24 hours notice it's no big thing. if nothing else, the drug tests are there to screen out those who aren't stupid enough to be discreet about their illegal activities.
urinalysis is usually used to detect amphetamines, methamphetamines, cocaine, opiates, and/or THC. i'm pretty sure some employers look over or don't test for THC content, but it definitely lingers in the body more than others because THC byproducts are stored in one's body fat and slowly released over time, where other drugs enter your system and are basically undetectable in a few days.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
You've asked why we do drug testing in the US - statistics were posted proving why it's beneficial to an employer to test for drug use and not hire those who fail. It's also been explained that it could very well be more of a 'stupid' test than a drug test - given these two things, how are you still at all arguing your point? Employers are well within their rights to hire whoever the hell they want, and they can take almost any steps necessary to filter out unwanted workers.
This is capitalism. Some people statistically make shitty workers. You can't compare this to race, because that's got a huge 'white guilt' bit attached to it. If 16 year olds didn't make shitty bank tellers, they'd be allowed to be bank tellers. If people who were too stupid to pass a drug test made good employees in the first place/didn't pose a huge legal risk to the company, we wouldn't have drug tests. End of story.
This is totally inaccurate - something like 70% of all households on welfare have HVAC in their houses, and 62% have satellite dishes. People on welfare generally aren't starving, they just made shitty choices or got fired from work.
I don't understand how you'd be against not letting them spend MY tax dollars on drugs which definitely will not help them get back into the country's workforce.
Here's some facts from my employer:
We started hair follicle testing in Jan 2009.
-We test for pre-employment
-Post Accident
-Reasonable Suspicion
-Poor Attendance
Facts:
-Casual Absenteeism dropped 10%
-Recordable Injuries Dropped 25%
-Workers Compensation Costs dropped $375K in 1 year.
-Turn-Over Dropped from 38% to 2
-At first 30% of new applicants failed hair testing. Now everyone passes. Probably because they know our test is unbeatable and druggies don't bother applying anymore.
Facts are facts. The company is in business to make money and hair follicle testing is fairly inexpensive. $40 which includes shipping and $40 for a MRO (Medical Review Officer) to review positive results.
We're going to random hair testing soon and may start random Breathalyzer testing too.
I've got a lot of friends that love their weed but they don't work where I do.
On the flip-side, regarding the absenteeism and accidents/worker's comp, I could say that the company changing it's policies simply scared the employees into being punctual and paying more attention to avoid accidents. Doesn't necessarily mean they aren't smoking weed while employed there, they could just be more careful.
KeithReyn
Members Only Member
did you even READ my post???? Are you stoned now?? :Smug:
im the dipshit though right? haha. I mentioned that they do background checks!! As I stated before, Those are worthless unless the person gets CAUGHT. I was thinking along the lines of a polygraph. Something instantaneous like the drugtests are. That way since we're outing and denying evil potheads, we can out the REAL sickos while we're at it.
No more jobs for pedos, drunks, thieves, or other lawbreakers! Of course, people are quite fine working with those kinds of people. Its those damn hippie potheads that are unbearable to be around.
jeff666
New Metal Member
I don't think it has anything at all to do with "weeding out the bad apples" drug testing is purely insurance driven. Joe Blow goes to work at the machine shop drunk, stoned and did a couple lines and has a good to go buzz to deal with the hum drum of another day. Now by accident Joe flips his cnc machine in reverse hits go and the $40,000 machine crashes costing the insurance company $1000's of dollars. Insurance now wants somebody's arse and stipulate that hiring stoners is bad for their business and threaten employers with massively higher rates than they normally pay.
Now the companies who hold exclusive rights to "fuck with THEIR employees" are usually corporate assholes, like the resort job mentioned earlier, where the corporate chain of suit and tie management rule their flock with an iron fist...for the lowly peon who calls this their place of employment misery will be spared no expense and drug testing is just one tool to break employees.
Now the companies who hold exclusive rights to "fuck with THEIR employees" are usually corporate assholes, like the resort job mentioned earlier, where the corporate chain of suit and tie management rule their flock with an iron fist...for the lowly peon who calls this their place of employment misery will be spared no expense and drug testing is just one tool to break employees.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
I can't say your first example does anything but support the use of drug testing?
The second paragraph just sounds like the bitter whining of a guy who couldn't make it in a corporate-ladder type job, if I'm perfectly honest.
midget donkeys
Member
- Jan 11, 2007
- 938
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In my experience jobs that drug test are usually government jobs or low paying physical labor jobs. If your well educated with a degree in something marketable chances are your employer will never actually have you tested.
As for the effectiveness of a drug test catching people, it is got to be pretty low. It's going to catch the careless people. Any good head shop can hook you up with a potion of voodoo that will make you piss clean for the test.
When I was younger and even more retarded I easily pissed clean for a test to work in a warehouse loading trucks even though I had been lighting up during the week before. And no I didn't get fucked up at work.
Recruiters for the army help people fake drugs tests to join up all the time. In fact during the build up to the invasion of Iraq the u.s. army stopped drug testing at all for awhile because so many people pissed hot that they thought we would be drastically understaffed.
So yes drug testing is legal. Does it prevent employees from using drugs? Not much.
As for the effectiveness of a drug test catching people, it is got to be pretty low. It's going to catch the careless people. Any good head shop can hook you up with a potion of voodoo that will make you piss clean for the test.
When I was younger and even more retarded I easily pissed clean for a test to work in a warehouse loading trucks even though I had been lighting up during the week before. And no I didn't get fucked up at work.
Recruiters for the army help people fake drugs tests to join up all the time. In fact during the build up to the invasion of Iraq the u.s. army stopped drug testing at all for awhile because so many people pissed hot that they thought we would be drastically understaffed.
So yes drug testing is legal. Does it prevent employees from using drugs? Not much.
jeff666
New Metal Member
ahjteam
Anssi Tenhunen
I've never used drugs, but I am against taking the welfare from the poor, junkies or not, because I have experienced what it is to be unemployed and poor on western standards for 6 months when the IT-bubble burst in early 2000's and nobody wanted barely graduated IT-guys at the time. I had to move in to my parents at the time (I think I was 19 or 20), and if they would've taken out my super low unemployment income because of hypothetical junkie status, I would've pretty much lost my "employable" -status, as companies and municipalities don't want to hire junkies, past or present. If that would've happened, I know I would've become super desperate at some point and most likely start to do some stupid stuff just to eat.
If I understood what HVAC is, I consider that heating as more of a necessity than a luxury item because I live in a cold country. I mean it ain't funny when it's below zero indoors. I don't think you are even allowed to build rental buildings without ventilation and heating in Finland, but the air conditioning is more of a luxury item here. If we would also have scorching +45C summers, it most likely would become more common.
edit: I support drug testing on work places tho.
did you even READ my post???? Are you stoned now?? :Smug:
im the dipshit though right? haha. I mentioned that they do background checks!! As I stated before, Those are worthless unless the person gets CAUGHT. I was thinking along the lines of a polygraph. Something instantaneous like the drugtests are. That way since we're outing and denying evil potheads, we can out the REAL sickos while we're at it.
No more jobs for pedos, drunks, thieves, or other lawbreakers! Of course, people are quite fine working with those kinds of people. Its those damn hippie potheads that are unbearable to be around.
yea i read your post, no i'm not stoned, and yes it still sounds retarded
1st of all, who is going to administer these polygraph tests? it's not like every employer out there has a polygraph machine sitting around, or a trained/certified professional around who is capable of properly administering the test. 2nd, polygraphs aren't considered to hold any amount of weight in court, which means they won't hold up to an insurance claim or other legal matters either.
3rd, if a person fucks kids, rapes, steals, etc. outside of the workplace, these are activities that don't physically affect one's ability to do their job - at least not to the point where if they cause bodily harm and/or monetary loss, their employer is going to be able to argue that those activities directly affected their workplace performance. if i'm 100% stone sober and clean, and drop a 4000 lb. pallet off of a forklift and onto a guy's head, it won't matter for shit if i jacked someone's car stereo the night before. however, if i drop said pallet on said person's head while i'm half drunk from the night before and with traces of THC in my bloodstream, i'm pretty well fucked.
drug tests are there to keep people who do that sort of shit from ever being in that position in the 1st place. if one's intent is to not employ criminals, then once again, that's where a simple background check comes into play...and like the drug test, in many instances employers don't care if you've been to jail before, they just want to see that what you said on your application matches your official criminal record.
this argument holds no weight, as under jeff's proposal, welfare benefits would stripped from those who test positive for the use of illegal drugs. it's a pretty simply rule - if you're going to live off the taxpayer's dime, don't be using that free cash to be getting trashed on illegal substances. my mom was on welfare when i was a kid, but she was a single mom who was going to college, working full time, and raising 2 little kids - she never partied or fucked around, and after finishing school began a well-paying career which allowed her to immediately get off of welfare. if those benefits hadn't been available, she would've never been able to finish college...however if those benefits had been given to her and she squandered them, IMO she should have been forced to give them up.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
This, Anssi. If you're going to be living off taxpayer money, you have no right to spend it on shit like alcohol, weed, other drugs, extravagant car upgrades, ipods, etc etc etc. When you're on welfare, it means you're poor - AKA cannot afford as high a standard of living as people not on welfare. welfare is NOT designed to allow you to sit on your ass and achieve the same standard of living, but is designed to allow you to get back on your feet and eventually be making money on your own to attain that standard of living.
Anyone who generalizes higher-ups in a company as "Corporate suits and ties" and people in starting positions as "lowly peons" is just pissed because they're not higher-ups, and apparently can't sack up enough to move up the company ladder towards one of those positions. There are certainly companies where the higher-ups rule with an iron fist, and the entry-level works are fucked, but that is not the majority of corporate America.
Regardless, why wouldn't the higher-ups have the right to 'break in' new employees, be it with drug tests or trial periods or quotas or etc? If you can't pass a simple piss test of all things, you probably don't have the motivation or intelligence to move up in the company ladder and actually do something more productive than menial, manual labor. Some people are stupid, and belong doing jobs that stupid people can do. Some people aren't, and shouldn't be stuck doing those jobs.
ratsapprentice
God can gtfo
So Jeff, do you believe that since I smoke pot, and wouldn't be able to pass a piss test any time soon, that I wouldn't be able to move up a corporate ladder? Because, although this is just retail, I smoked pot nearly every day at two separate jobs and went from new guy at the bottom level to managing within months, one was Home Depot and one was a local company here. Again, I smoked weed nearly every single day I worked during my employment at both jobs. The only time I didn't smoke was to pass the drug tests. Both places do not promote you with ease, you really have to prove yourself to even be considered, especially with such a huge company like HD. Not all pot smokers are alike, I know we are all really just generally speaking here but... come on.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
So Jeff, do you believe that since I smoke pot, and wouldn't be able to pass a piss test any time soon, that I wouldn't be able to move up a corporate ladder? Because, although this is just retail, I smoked pot nearly every day at two separate jobs and went from new guy at the bottom level to managing within months, one was Home Depot and one was a local company here. Again, I smoked weed nearly every single day I worked during my employment at both jobs. The only time I didn't smoke was to pass the drug tests. Both places do not promote you with ease, you really have to prove yourself to even be considered, especially with such a huge company like HD. Not all pot smokers are alike, I know we are all really just generally speaking here but... come on.
Nothing I've said in this thread at all indicates that I'd lump you in with everyone who would fail a piss-test - you wouldn't. If you were out searching for a new job, you're smart enough to pass a piss-test, whether it be by not smoking, or by smuggling in someone else's urine, or by any number of other things you could do to pass. You're not one of the stupid people who are supposed to be working menial, manual labor jobs - you're smart enough to do what's necessary to move up the company ladder. You've passed the piss-test, and the dumbass test.
