Drum editing practice!

[Skinny Viking]

^ ok to clarify ... since I'm unfamiliar with Cubase, it may not be exactly the same ... however, if we're talking about moving the audio within a region without moving the region itself, then yes it does as far as I can tell. On a PC you have to hold down the WIN key while hitting the + or - key on the number pad and the audio within the region selected will move by the nudge value you have set. Only weird thing that throws me off is that instead of + moving it forward and - backwards, its reversed

so unless there's something hugely different about Cubase slip editing vs that description, I would say PT has actual slip editing.

 

[Mago]

The big difference to Cubase is that you can slip edit there with the mouse,dragging the waveform where it belongs, and having the other hand in tbhe same position all the time.
Makes a lot of difference for the workflow,cause that way of nudging isn't usefull in he long run in PT

 

[JeffTD]

Cubase lets you use the mouse to drag the waveform within the region. The 'nudge by value' method is infinitely slower.

 

[mva801]

Ha ha these always turn into a slip vs. Pro Tools thing. It IS smoother in Cubase the way it works, but I still don't see much difference between moving the audio within the region and just moving the region itself. Either way you're moving audio. The big difference to me is, when moving a region in PT, you can't see the damn audio inside it. So if you cut a bit before the transient, you can't see exactly where you're going. That's the only thing that I think slows me down.

Good thing I rarely work on metal bands and the average indie rock, folk or county drummer can be edited within ten minutes for an entire song with good ol beat detective.

 

[Skinny Viking]

ahhhh ok I didn't realize that ...

stand happily corrected

 

[Daybreak]

Thanks so much guys, I'll practice on these as soon as I have the time! : D

 

[Mago]

Ha ha these always turn into a slip vs. Pro Tools thing. It IS smoother in Cubase the way it works, but I still don't see much difference between moving the audio within the region and just moving the region itself. Either way you're moving audio. The big difference to me is, when moving a region in PT, you can't see the damn audio inside it. So if you cut a bit before the transient, you can't see exactly where you're going. That's the only thing that I think slows me down.

I think that's because until you haven't done drum editing in both DAW you don't really get the difference in the workflow, and which function is a vital part for it...

I've done both for extended periods of time, and I prefer using BD in PT and then correcting/controlling what BD has done, rather than slashing through everything by hand with slip editing (which is an awesome method too, but I get crazy after a few songs). With BD it's a bit harder to concentrate, cause you don't do so much of the work itself manually though.

Only thing that bugs me cause I haven't found a way to turn it off yet, is if I want to move, say a snare after I've done the crossfades in PT, then it changes the x-fades to fade ins and fade outs. That can be avoided if I move the section with nudging, but it still bugs me...anyone know if you can turn that off?


Sorry for the sorta-OT Daybreak, but you're welcome

 

[bryan_kilco]

Only thing that bugs me cause I haven't found a way to turn it off yet, is if I want to move, say a snare after I've done the crossfades in PT, then it changes the x-fades to fade ins and fade outs. That can be avoided if I move the section with nudging, but it still bugs me...anyone know if you can turn that off?

Not to skew this even farther off topic, but I stumbled across something similar in Reaper. It happens when I have snap-to-grid enabled, and I "time-select auto punch". Instead of x-fades on the start and end of the punch-in, it puts fade-out\/fade-in. Then I have to manually go back and slip the fade. Not the end of the world, but takes an extra few seconds.

 

[mva801]

Only thing that bugs me cause I haven't found a way to turn it off yet, is if I want to move, say a snare after I've done the crossfades in PT, then it changes the x-fades to fade ins and fade outs. That can be avoided if I move the section with nudging, but it still bugs me...anyone know if you can turn that off?


Sorry for the sorta-OT Daybreak, but you're welcome

I think that just has to do with the region boundaries. If you move them small amounts it usually just makes the crossfade bigger. If you move it far enough apart from the front of the region it'll make fade ins and fade outs. I don't think there is an option to change how that behaves. If the fades just stuck to the beginning or end of one region I could see it causing other issues. I think you just have to move the region, slide the breakpoint to a good spot, and re-fade.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Honestly if you can edit that mess I'll be impressed. While I did do it to a click, you can clearly hear just how noobtastic I am.

I'm guessing a lot of snare + crash or kick + crash won't line up totally correct. Plus that blast beat...


What I played doesn't go to any song, so no need to get them back. I was just trying to give you a small section to practice on.

 

[Daybreak]

Now this may be a little off-topic, but I'm thinking, it's my thread so who cares?

I'm getting the hang of it, and everything sounds pretty good now. I've tried both elastic audio and beat detective and have come to the conclusion that BD sounds far better for drums! It's all going smooth, except when I come to parts like this:

I should probably warn you right now that I have practically no experience in drum editing, and this might come off as the stupidest question this side of new years'; So yeah, this is a kick and snare that both SHOULD be on the same spot. But since I can't move the kick to it's right spot, since if I do you would hear two hits, one from the close-mic-track and on from the bleed of the snare track, and if I move the snare with it, the snare gets off sync. My only workaround until now was to timestretch both a little bit to make both at least somewhat closer to where they should be, but there must be a better solution. ):

 

[Mago]

Looks like my files, and looks like you've found one of my special treats

you can try a few different approachs, depending on what sounds the least shittiest.
First thing I'd try is to see how much of the snare I could sacrifice without it sounding shitty. Lot easier if the kick is early, cause (usually) it decays a lot faster.
Depending on how close you can bring kick and snare together it *may* works if you put the middle of the gap somwhere on the beat. it may.

If that sounds like shit (which it will in a lot of cases), see if you have a similar section to copy in there (take care of the overheads tho).

If for some reason another section isn't available (cause something unique is played at that part), then you can try to trick around with the samples you took earlier, manually pasting hits to cover up that section. Can take *quite* a bit of work to get right, and will take up a lot of tracks to get all the bleed right, if you're not lucky and the stuff fades into eachother nicely.
Maybe you'll get away with just pasting a solid snare over that weak snare, but *always always always* listen carefully to the phase and how the room and OHs sound.
iE cutting the snare so short it does sound like shit, but putting a full snare on a seperate track with all the other mics, carefully fading in to get the transition somewhat right. No guarantee that it will work in all cases.
In the mix you might get away with it.
That's why it's usefull to have scratch tracks along to edit to, in case you can only patch it off rough, see how audible it is in the mix. I hate to do that tho.

And yeah, BD is a lot better than EA for drums. Apart from cases when you'd need a larger gab, then you can try to time stretch a part...but I think I mentioned that already somewhere here.

 

[Mago]

I think that just has to do with the region boundaries. If you move them small amounts it usually just makes the crossfade bigger. If you move it far enough apart from the front of the region it'll make fade ins and fade outs. I don't think there is an option to change how that behaves. If the fades just stuck to the beginning or end of one region I could see it causing other issues. I think you just have to move the region, slide the breakpoint to a good spot, and re-fade.

thanks for the reply man, and shame. I also guess it has to do with PT making audio files for fades.
It's annoying tho, as for some edits its usable to have the fades already in place to check if it sounds good or not.

I didn't check now, but I *think* that when I nudge the region it even adjusts the boundries. When I drag it with the mouse it erases the fades regardless of how far I move it.

I could get used to nudging with the keyboard in small steps, but I still drag the region with the mouse before that (some things are just hard to shake off I guess), and it's just a PITA to always have to cmd+z for the same problem -.-

 

[mva801]

Do you have PT10? Maybe with the real time fades now it behaves a little differently.

 

[Mago]

yeah, PT10. Totally forgot about the real time fades though!