Drum Editing

[austinhue]

Did you even consider Trigger?

Yeah, I've actually been using the demo version for the past month or so. Looks like it's about 2 and a half times more expensive than apTrigga and the only thing I like better about it is the retrigger knob. Looks to me like apTrigga can do all the same stuff, Trigger just makes it easier to do things like map velocity and set threshold, plus you can drop more multisamples. But if that's all there is to it, then it doesn't seem worth the extra 80 bucks... I use all crack hits (my own samples) for 99% of the song, so I turn it on random multisample anyway and comp if I need some soft hits. By all means, if there's something I'm missing, I'd love to know... it just seems like they're very comparable for what I want to do and the price difference is considerable for a poor college student.

 

[jipchen]

Yeah.. only Trigger comes with a gazillion of great samples (which Joey used and sometimes still uses on his productions) and apTrigga does not.
I have it, too but it can't compete with Trigger. Not only on the sample part, Trigger is way easier to set up and more realiable (with my workflow at least).

 

[austinhue]

I have all the Slate samples, which come in wav format, so you can use them with apTrigga. Although I'm using samples that I made myself for my current production, actually. Instead of Slate. On purpose, haha. I like to have our drummer's kit on the actual album, and it's not as hard as people make it out to be to create your own Slate or Sturgis-quality samples... Plus, one kit worth of samples should be all you need for any given project, unless you're mixing snares or something.
I think apTrigga is easier to set up personally =] So I guess it's just personal choice. If it's easier for you, that's great, but in terms of capabilities it looks like they're about the same and apTrigga is way less dough.

 

[Bryantnick]

Yeah, I've actually been using the demo version for the past month or so. Looks like it's about 2 and a half times more expensive than apTrigga and the only thing I like better about it is the retrigger knob. Looks to me like apTrigga can do all the same stuff, Trigger just makes it easier to do things like map velocity and set threshold, plus you can drop more multisamples. But if that's all there is to it, then it doesn't seem worth the extra 80 bucks... I use all crack hits (my own samples) for 99% of the song, so I turn it on random multisample anyway and comp if I need some soft hits. By all means, if there's something I'm missing, I'd love to know... it just seems like they're very comparable for what I want to do and the price difference is considerable for a poor college student.

regardless of price you have to think of what its going to take to get the job done right, and sound professional. buying something because its cheaper just makes you spend more money in the end because you end up buying the better product after the cheaper one is no longer worth the trouble. i personally use DRUM-A-GOG and i never have a problem with it. works perfectly and makes my programming/ re-sampling sound natural and more realistic.

 

[jpsmithrocks]

regardless of price you have to think of what its going to take to get the job done right, and sound professional. buying something because its cheaper just makes you spend more money in the end because you end up buying the better product after the cheaper one is no longer worth the trouble. i personally use DRUM-A-GOG and i never have a problem with it. works perfectly and makes my programming/ re-sampling sound natural and more realistic.

is that what you used o program the drums on your woe is me track that you posted?

 

[Bryantnick]

yea thats what i use for everything

 

[Tim HLAH]

does cubase 5 or 6 have anything like tab to transient or flex/elastic? or anything more efficient than manual slip editing?

 

[jpsmithrocks]

yea thats what i use for everything

So were these drums programmed or did you just use drumagog to replace the drums?

 

[Seth Munson]

So were these drums programmed or did you just use drumagog to replace the drums?

What's the difference?

Quantizing + any replacement plug is basically a shittier way to program because the lack of intensive velocity editing/humanizing

 

[jpsmithrocks]

What's the difference?

Quantizing + any replacement plug is basically a shittier way to program because the lack of intensive velocity editing/humanizing

Well Basically... I'm not a drummer... anything on keys and guitar im Golden... classically trained then went to the Musicians Institute in LA... blah blah blah...

But i hear these guys programmed drum recordings and I'm like how the hell did that guy do that especially on the two recent additions to the songs created with joey sturgis samples in the off-topic lounge... So im basically trying to figure out how its done because I have probably over a 100 songs written which need drums and its a pain to go into the studio and work with a drummer to create the drummer tracks and/or pay someone to program the drum tracks for me you know...

I have slate, I have ez drummer, I have superior drummer and I'm still not able to get the drums I want...

 

[JeffTD]

What's the difference?

Quantizing + any replacement plug is basically a shittier way to program because the lack of intensive velocity editing/humanizing

Completely disagreed on this one. Huge difference in feel and swing, since you're never (or should never be) editing 100% to the grid. Any decent replacement plugin handles the velocities for you, and we haven't even begun to talk about how much better real cymbals are than programed ones. Joey's come close to being 'drummer replacement' quality, but there's a completely unique feel to tracking a real drummer vs programming, regardless of whether or not you're editing the real playing after the fact.

 

[Bryantnick]

yeah.

 

[Zombietakeover]

Jeff are you talking about you never should edit a live performance 100% to grid.......i thought i remember u saying that most every modern metal cd is 100% on grid were you just talking about strictly programmed drums?

 

[Bryantnick]

So were these drums programmed or did you just use drumagog to replace the drums?

i let the drummer track the song as he would normally, then i go behind him and clean up fills, etc. but i NEVER program/ replace cymbals. i just slip edit the overhead track to match up with what i program or reprogram.

 

[austinhue]

regardless of price you have to think of what its going to take to get the job done right, and sound professional. buying something because its cheaper just makes you spend more money in the end because you end up buying the better product after the cheaper one is no longer worth the trouble. i personally use DRUM-A-GOG and i never have a problem with it. works perfectly and makes my programming/ re-sampling sound natural and more realistic.

I should say that the cost difference is very nice, but I honestly see no considerable difference between Drumagog and apTrigga. At least for me =]

 

[Seth Munson]

Completely disagreed on this one. Huge difference in feel and swing, since you're never (or should never be) editing 100% to the grid. Any decent replacement plugin handles the velocities for you, and we haven't even begun to talk about how much better real cymbals are than programed ones. Joey's come close to being 'drummer replacement' quality, but there's a completely unique feel to tracking a real drummer vs programming, regardless of whether or not you're editing the real playing after the fact.

I can agree with this

Edit: and I was talking about shells, OFC real cymbals > programmed. (for the most part)

Jeff are you talking about you never should edit a live performance 100% to grid.......i thought i remember u saying that most every modern metal cd is 100% on grid were you just talking about strictly programmed drums?

and I was thinking this as well

 

[JeffTD]

Jeff are you talking about you never should edit a live performance 100% to grid.......i thought i remember u saying that most every modern metal cd is 100% on grid were you just talking about strictly programmed drums?

When you edit a drum track, you're eyeballing it to the grid with slip editing or using a certain strength percentage in beat detective. It shouldn't be 100% on the grid, but it'll be close. It will look dead on when zoomed to a normal zoom level for viewing 1/3 or 1/2 of the project or whatever, but if you start cutting on the grid you're going to be a bit behind/ahead of the transients unless you zoom into viewing individual samples every time you shift a beat, and that's just retarded.

 

[NSGUITAR]

When you edit a drum track, you're eyeballing it to the grid with slip editing or using a certain strength percentage in beat detective. It shouldn't be 100% on the grid, but it'll be close. It will look dead on when zoomed to a normal zoom level for viewing 1/3 or 1/2 of the project or whatever, but if you start cutting on the grid you're going to be a bit behind/ahead of the transients unless you zoom into viewing individual samples every time you shift a beat, and that's just retarded.

.. What about tab to transient? Whenever I edit that way, it's DEAD on the grid.. 100%. Sounds good to me too.

 

[Seth Munson]

.. What about tab to transient? Whenever I edit that way, it's DEAD on the grid.. 100%. Sounds good to me too.

Unless the drummer is awesome I usually have to do it this way as well.

 

[JeffTD]

His cymbals are still flaying all over the place since it's not going to be 100% in time with the drums. That's what I mean by never editing 100% to the grid, but I do think that tab-to-trans and then hard-quantizing every hit sounds way too stiff to my ears. It sounds lifeless in an "August Burns Red" type of way to me, if that makes sense.