Drum Samples - Getting That '70s/Early '80s Punchy Snare Sound.. Help!

[largactyl]

hi all,

For years i've been searching for a good set of snare samples... something that sounds like the old metal/NWOBHM from the '70s and early '80s. Anything I can find, it's either too "clicky" modern, or too "ringy" and drawn out, or too thin and weak for what I'm looking for..

Here are a couple of very general pointers for the sort of snare sound I'm after:

- Phil Taylor on MOTORHEAD - "Ace of Spades"
- Bill Ward on BLACK SABBATH - "Paranoid"
- Lars Ulrich on METALLICA - "Kill Em All" (but not afterwards..)
- Kim Ruzz on MERCYFUL FATE - "Nuns Have No Fun" (it does sound drawn-out, but only because of the reverb I guess.. MASSIVE snare sound there)
- Tons and tons of NWOBHM and Punk albums from the later '70s, early '80s.... HOLOCAUST "The Nightcomers" album, the early DISCHARGE stuff, IRON MAIDEN - "Killers", etc...

So, basically...... snare hits that sound very short, dry, and punchy. None of that "ringing" sound or drawn-out tails.
I also like to inject a lot of dynamics in the drums, so I'd prefer a set that has a complete range from very quiet to very loud hits.

As you can probably tell, I don't know that much about drumming... the kind of snare tracks I described above, the "punchiness" sounds like it's a result of some compression, but I can't figure out much more than that.


So to sum it up:

1) Does anyone know of a good sample CD or collection, where I can find this sort of snare sound?

2) If not: Could you give some pointers on how this sound could be achieved? Perhaps I could use this knowledge to improve existing sets of "dry" snare samples.
I'd especially like to know about good compression settings... how not to kill the transient, but keep the hits sounding SHORT and punchy, so that snare rolls wouldn't sound like a big drawn-out smear...

Thanks!

 

[ahjteam]

2) http://www.recordready.com/?p=52

The example is done with Pro Tools, but you can do it with any DAW that supports sidechaining

 

[Gomez]

Hey Largactyl

Big room mics have a lot to do with this sound.

Drums then weren't as resonant as they are today, it was very fashionable to not use bottom skins and muffle the top skin, resulting on the "cardboard" sound.

Also gates played a big role back then as well... you may also want to try a boost at around 5-6k and a gated reverb if you are into early Genesis Phil Collins

If you're into Pink Floyd's dark side of the moon, I can tell you they used Neumann KM84's on toms and silver AKG c414 on snare... classic 70's drum sound.

 

[Gomez]

I wrote this a few years back:


GETTING THAT '70'S SOUND


Given the current “retro” trend, you might want to read how to get the “70’s” sound. Most of the time, it sounds like cardboard boxes, but many people simply love it.

A lot of it has to do with a type of skin that was very popular at the time: the Evans Hydraulic, which consists if two fairly thick layers Mylar® with oil in between them. The effect: Less resonance/drier sound. Secondly, a lot of drummers in the 70’s didn’t use resonators(or bottom skins) which makes your drums sound “drier” as there isn’t resonance from another skins.

Thirdly, drum kits then were fairly different to those manufactured these days. Back then, drums were manufactured at high quality standards in the U.S. or Europe, before everything started to be made in china. The trend in choice of wood has also changed, as for in the 40’s to the 70’s most drum kits were made of birch. These days, most pro kits are made of maple.

Technological advances has had an effect on drums too: the way plywood is put together, the glue used for it, machinery for moulding, hardware design and construction, the way bearing edges are cut etc, etc, etc

 

[largactyl]

2) http://www.recordready.com/?p=52

The example is done with Pro Tools, but you can do it with any DAW that supports sidechaining

Thanks! Bookmarked.... the sticky thread you have about sidechaining also helped me connect the dots there.

 

[Lasse Lammert]

compress the bottommic to fuck (very fast attack, high ratio lots of reduction (like 10dB or so))
but a gate on the bottom mic and feed the top mic into the key in of said gate.
that way you get a huge thick "ksscccccchhhhh" from the snares (and not a "rattling) but the gate will cut it before it gets too drawn out.

but both mics to your snaregroup and process with comp and EQ to taste.

highly compressed roomics help (SSL Listening comp). also, as mentioned earlier gated Reverb

 

[largactyl]

Gomez - thanks, now I get the "why" part of the '70s drum sound....

Haha, I've grown to like the "cardboard" sound. Maybe it's not exactly what I had in mind though... I guess "cardboard" is usually associated with lack of punch? The bands/albums I listed did start from that sort of sound, but during the late '70s/early '80s it started getting a bit more powerful and punchier.... that was just before the entire world adopted the big beefy "80s snare" sound

So.. anyone knows of a sample collection or sample CD where I can find snare hits with that sort of sound??

The recording info is interesting but unfortunately won't help me much, since I'm limited to working with samples. Anything from the "cardboard era" to the early '80s bands I mentioned above would do the trick, I guess....