Dumbest Girl.......EVER

[Evil?]

The only thing I am denying is that calling a grown woman, Girl is insulting.

 

[Susperia]

The point was that "bird" or "chicky" don't have preprogrammed meanings of inferiority anymore either.

Simply put, what is so wrong with a certain percentage of women enjoying the posessionalization of themselves via such words, just as another certain percentage will stand up and tell men to bite it when they call them by such a name, people are different and react differently, don't love "humans" because they are human, thats stupid and just as stereotypical as saying you'll love only white people because they're white... how about... I love *insert name here* because of what makes him/her different?

About the whole "call my by my name thing", everyone has a name, everyone can be called by it, but if a person is calling you "chicky", wouldn't you have to assume there is a reason behind it, like not knowing your name and attempting to be nonabrasive by using a commonplace term that exemplifies desire for lack of formality (intimacy)?

Please don't be stupid, especially when you try to hide it behind calm airs and formalized sentences.

I already said I love humans IN GENERAL. Now YOU ARE REALLY nitpicking.

I also said that calling someone by a nickname is fine when done JOVIALLY NOT GENERALLY OR APATHETICALLY. PLEASE TAKE MORE TIME IN READING MY POSTS BEFORE YOU MAKE ME TAKE THE TIME TO READ YOURS.

 

[Ender Rises]

It's not like any of us is for feminine oppression, I don't see why these rants must be posted here.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

You guys have brought me to the brink of tears. I can't believe you would deny every single thing I've said in this thread. I feel sick, my head hurts, I am done for the night.

Amazing.

Never mind that we were actually making valid points. We're clearly all just bad, bad people because we don't agree with all of your outlandish biases.

 

[Susperia]

^^^THEY'RE BRAINWASHED!!!!!!!

FEAR IN GOD MAKES YOU ACCEPT ANYTHING!

 

[Valerie]

^^^THEY'RE BRAINWASHED!!!!!!!

FEAR IN GOD MAKES YOU ACCEPT ANYTHING!

Fortunately I don't need fear in god to accept that you're delusional.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

So... I take it Susperia has turned this into a rant against Islamic sexism because her rant against Western sexism didn't carry enough weight?

Interesting how this whole bullshit debate has evolved.

 

[Ender Rises]

Fortunately I don't need fear in god to accept that you're delusional.

pwned.

 

[LordLuciendar]

Please don't be stupid, especially when you try to hide it behind calm airs and formalized sentences.

I already said I love humans IN GENERAL. Now YOU ARE REALLY nitpicking.

I also said that calling someone by a nickname is fine when done JOVIALLY NOT GENERALLY OR APATHETICALLY. PLEASE TAKE MORE TIME IN READING MY POSTS BEFORE YOU MAKE ME TAKE THE TIME TO READ YOURS.

I should say the same thing because I didn't say you should love people "in general" I said you should love people for who they are, their individuality, not for the fact that they have the same amount of genes as us. That's the "easy way out", to be so fed up with stereotypes that you have to come up with an all encompassing category to love people by.
I am arguing FOR the use of general nicknames, specifically because each one bears its own meaning and if I want to make someone seem a little skanky, I might call them one thing, where as if I wanted to make them seem like a total whore, another.
Why are you so upset? Do you believe so strongly that only you can have the right opinion and that others wrong opinions will doom them? This is a conversation, perhaps even an argument, but it is being discussed publicly so that we can share our -different- opinions and attempt to understand one another. This isn't a place to attempt to brainwash everyone so they think you're right, wouldn't that, in essence, be just as bad as some of those men brainwashing women for their own purposes?

 

[cookiecutter]

One thing behind the "inferior women" stereotype that may as well be pointed out here is that most women are physically inferior to men. This is why sports are segregated by gender, why most men walk their female friends home at night, and why it's a taboo for men to physically fight a woman.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

Actually this is not the reason we have a male dominated society. Before the advent of agriculture, both genders shared power equally. As agriculture and the state began to form, the only way to control said state was through terror and militarization, hence men. This exact topic was what I've been studying for the past few weeks in Sociology and we have discussed this briefly in another thread.

Susperia, I wish I could agree with you. Women are still at a disadvantage in our society. It's worse in many other societies. But fighting battles over whether someone calls you a girl versus a woman is not really relevant. Girl is the opposite of guy, not gal. This isn't the 1950s.

I also don't think you are presenting your points in a clear or rational manner, which doesn't help us to accept them. Even though you do make some legitimate points, they're surrounded by "You guys just don't understand!" which is offputting.

 

[Evil?]

Good post.

 

[LordLuciendar]

Which is why the suppression of women in Islam is a bad example, because the suppression of women is an indirect effect of another action, namely faith in a religious doctrine. Thus, the religious doctrine, as the goal of these supposed oppressors, is the active effect, whereas the suppression of women with respect to religious doctrine is a passive effect.

I'm not arguing that women are oppressed. I'm arguing that men "out to get" women as you see it is not seen on a broad scale.

Wrong direction... Unless you believe that guns kill people, not other people kill people.

A bullet may be the direct cause behind a persons death, but the man behind the trigger DID have something to do with it... but in this case we're not worrying about who pulled whose chain that flipped the lever that sank the bucket and knocked the ball and eventually made certain people believe in oppression for any reason... we're just talking about the fact that for any reason, women are being oppressed.

 

[unknown]

hooray for sociolinguistic debates!

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Actually this is not the reason we have a male dominated society. Before the advent of agriculture, both genders shared power equally. As agriculture and the state began to form, the only way to control said state was through terror and militarization, hence men. This exact topic was what I've been studying for the past few weeks in Sociology and we have discussed this briefly in another thread.

Right. I wasn't really trying to pin male dominance entirely on the physical aspect, I was just offering it as a partial explanation for where we are now.

Though... if male dominance really has its roots in historically male-dominated military and politics, that really shouldn't be an issue today (or at least the near future) now that women are playing bigger and bigger roles in those professions.

 

[cookiecutter]

Right. I wasn't really trying to pin male dominance entirely on the physical aspect, I was just offering it as a partial explanation for where we are now.

Though... if male dominance really has its roots in historically male-dominated military and politics, that really shouldn't be an issue today (or at least the near future) now that women are playing bigger and bigger roles in those professions.

Exactly, it shouldn't, but it is. According to my class, we are living in a system that is thousands of years old and sustained by organizations such as religion and the media. I am a little hesitant to jump totally aboard on that but it sounds plausible. Sorry to keep citing my class, but it is pretty provocative and relevant to this debate, and it's been floating around in my head a lot recently.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

This would be a relevant response if you knew how to read, but you seem to have failed doing that.

 

[LordLuciendar]

This would be a relevant response if you knew how to read, but you seem to have failed doing that. I was commenting on Susperia's claim that there are men "out to get" women, which I refuted. I didn't say that women are being repressed. I said that it's a passive, and not active effect of religious ideology, and thus the terminology that she used, namely men "out to get" women, which suggests active intent, was misguided.

Understand?

Also your analogy with guns is baseless.

The guns analogy is a popular debate that has had no final answer, and "out to get" does not imply actively seeking, a man in business can be "out to get" his partners just by looking the other way at the right moment, not exactly an active situation. I'm sure she simply was referring to the mindset a man might have in a given situation, not the things he dwells upon on a day to day basis. And lastly, she said she "DIDN'T" believe in that.

*shrugs* But on that night, Night all.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

Exactly, it shouldn't, but it is. According to my class, we are living in a system that is thousands of years old and sustained by organizations such as religion and the media. I am a little hesitant to jump totally aboard on that but it sounds plausible. Sorry to keep citing my class, but it is pretty provocative and relevant to this debate, and it's been floating around in my head a lot recently.

Hey, that class of yours has given us a sweet discussion topic. You can cite it all you want.

I'm not sure there's much to do about this issue besides remain 'agnostic' on it until our society has progressed beyond some more of its archaic biases and injustices. We've come a long damn way in just the past 100 years. It'll take people a while to get acclimated to all the movements for social reform that are going on.

It would be a fucking dream come true for me to live to see religion die down to the level of an obscure subculture. Probly won't happen for another few hundred years, though.

 

[cookiecutter]

Agreed

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Oppression of women in the middle east has more to do with pre-Islamic culture than Islam itself, actually. So more cultural than religious.

I'm not "trying" for shit. Is it really that fucking hard for you guys to understand that being a woman in general is looked down upon?? Are you really that fucking airheaded with your heads up your fucking asses?? Women are still deemed a MINORITY FOR FUCK'S SAKE! WE SHOULDN'T BE CONSIDERED THAT WE ARE COMPLETELY AND ENTIRELY ON THE SAME LEVEL AS MEN. Not only are there just as many of us (if not more) but we are just as important, just as intelligent, just as HUMAN as men.

But no I'm just saying all this to upset myself, that's clearly all I want.

Either trolling or a dumb skank... either way, there's less misogynistic subcultures you could join up with.

np: Nunslaughter - Satanic Slut